Relationship Reflections with Ryan Shaffner
EP 011: Ryan Shaffner
Executive Chef and Husband
Aubrey, the host of the show welcomes her husband, Ryan Shaffner, to discuss the advantages and difficulties of working in the same intense industry as your partner. They will be discussing a range of best approaches that have been passed down and tested firsthand. If you are looking for ways to better support others or specific ideas on connecting better with your partner, this episode is perfect for you.
EPISODE OUTLINE
[00:00:00] A musical introduction to the Shaffners'
[00:01:06] What to expect this episode
[00:03:10] How Chef Ryan joined the CIA
[00:10:00] Calling this part a tree because it’s so sappy
[00:13:40] How to support the show
[00:15:00] T-Swift isn’t just with some nobody (a.k.a. The value of finding someone who understands your struggles)
[00:17:29] Communication is the key and miscommunication is pushing a pull door until you hurt something
[00:27:00] If he wanted to he would
[00:36:53] Partnership with Bookshop.org
[00:37:25] Life is like a pack of Pokemon cards, everything is always changing
[00:40:10] Closing
RESOURCES
Where to Find Us:
How to Support the Show:
Explore our bookshelf on Bookshop.org
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Music: I saw you from across the room, your head was down doing doodles through, a boring orientation flowing through ya. We said that we were from Baltimore And you came to me and asked to hear more And in my mind, I thought, well, Hallelujah Hallelujah, hallelujah Hallelujah, Hallelujah so here we are with our family and friends And we both know this is not where it ends Though our folks are probably thinking Hallelujah So glad that you said you'd wait for me and together we've been able to see A love that nothing else can cut through, [00:01:00] yeah Hallelujah. Hallelujah.
Music transitions…
[00:01:06] Aubrey: Welcome to another episode of the Golden Approach Podcast. If you've listened before, thank you so much. It means the world to have you back. And if you're new here, I'm really excited to welcome you. I have no doubt you'll find some helpful little nuggets here, but first let me give you some super brief context about myself and the show. I'm Aubrey. I've spent the majority of my career as a pastry chef in elite companies with lots of stars and diamonds and James Beard nods, wins, and so forth. And while I love all things food and beverage, what really ties it together for me is hospitality, the art of caring for others. Having been raised in three religions and among countless cultures, combined with the opportunity to travel for work, I'm really grateful to have been exposed to so many perspectives this world has to offer. On this show, I'm excited to share all I've come to learn and introduce you to other talented and insightful professionals, F & B or not, [00:02:00] Aubrey: who are passionate about making the world a better place. I have full confidence that together we can implement the same skills of strategy and emotional intelligence mastered in these posh hotels and fancy restaurants to cultivate growth and meaningful connections as individuals, communities, and in any form of workplace. So without further ado, let's get to the good stuff.
Music fades out…
Aubrey: I just want to start with a quick thank you to my mom, Elizabeth, for the song at the top of the show. She wrote and performed that as her wedding toast seven and a half years ago to me and my husband, Ryan Shaffner, who is also my guest on today's episode. Anyone who's had the pleasure of meeting Ryan in person knows he is so shy and I can't express enough how much I appreciate that he actually offered to do this. I'd say that is true love. Both Ryan and I feel very privileged to come from parents with long, happy marriages. And we feel grateful that it's provided us a lot of guidance for the ebbs and flows of life. We hope you, the listener, find our conversation helpful. And after [00:03:00] we'd love to hear your own suggestions by tagging us at @goldenapproachpod on Instagram, but without any more delay, welcome to the show Chef and husband, Ryan.
[00:03:09] Ryan: Glad to be here.
[00:03:10] Aubrey: So we met in 2012, in orientation for our externship, as mentioned in the song, and we were both students of the Culinary Institute of America. At the time, though we don't really remember seeing each other despite it being a pretty small campus and we'd apparently been orbiting the same circles for a while too so let's catch the listeners up a bit. How did you end up at C.I.A. and on this path? Tell me about anything about the restaurant that you run, or the team you're trying to build, any context you want to share?
[00:03:40] Ryan: I'm Ryan, I'm currently an Executive Chef at a restaurant and hotel here in Baltimore. I've been cooking professionally for the past 10 years or so. Um, I was the opening chef of this hotel, took a step back for, I think almost two full years, went crazy, [00:04:00] took some time off, got my head on straight, discovered the joys of medication, and decided I wanted to go back into it. So, uh, bounced around a few other places. Umm. You know, worked my way back up to Executive Chef and here I am.
[00:04:18] Aubrey: I will give you credit, you've only been back a couple months and, I feel like you've made some serious strides. Like, the public sees it, not just like in the back of house, but I mean like, but the public is very excited to have you back and can tell the difference so that's where you are now. Let's go back to the beginning and give me some insight of how you got here. Why did you even end up as a chef?
[00:04:38] Ryan: I think it probably started my first job...
[00:04:42] Aubrey: say more.
[00:04:44] Ryan: I was fifteen. I was a dishwasher at a restaurant in Fallston Maryland. My friend got me the job, um, it was a wild experience. People who were there were [00:05:00] unlike any people I had met. They were all kind of rowdy and outspoken, and they just, I don't know, make you feel included. I guess it felt like you were part of a team. So I worked there for a while and I just was like, "Okay, cool", like, I'll make some money to hang out with my friend. So I worked a few different places dishwashing in high school, and then it was really important to my mother that I go to college. Part of the experience is not living at home, but I had no idea what I wanted to do. I thought I would want to be a teacher. I had a history teacher, my senior year in high school who I really liked and was just like, I've been in school all my life. I already know this. Maybe I'll just do this. And so I went to Shepherd University, to become a history teacher, a major in secondary education, minor in history. I attended for four and a half years. I think I was a semester away from graduating. I ended up, I forget if I
[00:06:00] Ryan: dropped out or failed out first, but when I got to the end of the curriculum I didn't like a lot of the professors. I don't know. The way they were teaching, the information just didn't seem right. It was just, it was a lot of "the Confederate should have won" kind of business and that, that didn't really sit right with me. So, I ended up, again, I think I failed out and then I think I stopped going to class and then I think I just dropped out and then I was working three jobs. In the morning I worked at a bed and breakfast. There were four rooms. I would cook breakfast for all the guests and then I cleaned the rooms
[00:06:36] Ryan: and then at night I split my time washing dishes at the nicest restaurant in Shepherdstown.
[00:06:41] Aubrey: the first time we went there I think you gave me fair warning like "You better look up or you're gonna miss it" or something like that.
[00:06:47] Ryan: Yeah, I think I was told you needed, I think it's 25 votes to be the mayor there, this was years ago so it's probably gotten bigger since then, but... Yeah, I was working three jobs and, living with my [00:07:00] friends in a townhome, no idea what I wanted to do. You know, one, one job was for rent, one job was for booze, and one was for food and my mom called me one day, was like, "Hey, we're going to go, tour the Culinary Institute of America. Your little sister's interested, and you should come with us. You've been, you know, working kitchens, and you should come check it out", so I don't remember why I did, but I ended up doing it.
[00:07:21] Aubrey: Just to confirm, your mom knew you weren't in school at this point, right?
[00:07:23] Ryan: Yeah, so she was like "Hey, let's go", we went, we toured it. It was really cool. I was like "I certainly can't afford this", but we met one of the guidance counselors, she said, "You should apply. Worst thing they're going to do is tell you no." So I was like, all right, I'll apply. and they called me the next day and they said "If you can start in two weeks, we'll give you half off tuition", and tuition was about $60,000 just for your associate's degree, so this was the only way I was ever going to do it. I don't know why I decided to do it, but I decided this was what I was going to do. And I did it. I quit all three jobs the next day and all of the [00:08:00] money I had went to trying to pay off, the four or five months rent left in my townhome and took out some loans.
[00:08:08] Aubrey: So, okay, you went off to school. They convinced you, with money, as most things in life do, to make a choice, and you went for it, and you're at C.I.A. then came externship? And that's where we met.
[00:08:24] Ryan: Yeah, so I went to the career fair with my friend Jeremy.
[00:08:28] Aubrey: Thank God for Jeremy. He's like the MVP of our relationship.
[00:08:33] Ryan: Yeah, and so we, went around, the two of us looked at all these places and he had some places in mind he wanted to go, but I didn't really care. And I think he was between two and one of the ones he was between, I went and I talked to them and, they sold me on it and seemed like a nice place so we both ended up going to the Stein Erikson Lodge in Utah. They took, I think, 10 culinary externs? And four baking and pastry?
[00:09:00] Aubrey: Uh, no, I think there was just three of us, me and two others. I just think it's funny too. Cause I feel to an extent we had the same experience, but yet so much our own version, cause I went into culinary school with my externship in mind and I'd only picked one, which was a rookie mistake in so many ways, but everything works out the way it's supposed to I truly believe that So I, I don't even think I picked Stein Erickson. I'm pretty sure um, his name was Chef Miller? Oh, John Miller. That's what it was. Stopped me, and started talking to me and I think I like signed something for information and they were like, oh, we're doing the open interviews the next day. So I was like, "Sure, why not?" And I went and they offered me a job, so it was kind of a default choice, but it was obviously one of the best choices I ever made professionally and personally. So I'm curious to hear your version of orientation.
[00:09:58] Ryan: Um, I remember [00:10:00] where I was sitting. I remember where you were sitting. I remember looking over at you quite a few times. Um, and I don't remember the exercise we were doing, but we were, I think we were introducing our partners because we were sitting in groups of two.
[00:10:13] Aubrey: I definitely remember it being one of those really basic exercises of just say your name, say where you're from, and one random fun fact about yourself kind of thing.
[00:10:21] Ryan: And so I was sitting next to Jeremy and we had to introduce each other and he introduced me and said I was from Baltimore and you know, blah, blah, blah. I think they didn't expect us to already know each other, but yeah. And then I remember we broke for lunch and I was holding the door for people to go downstairs to get lunch and then you popped over and asked me about what part of Baltimore and I said, "I'm not actually from Baltimore. I live in Harford County." And then you said, "Oh, that's cool, you know, me too." And we just started talking and then we found out that our parents lived like 15 minutes from each other. And then that your best friend and my best friend at the time were [00:11:00] brother-sister. That's pretty weird, and then we got downstairs, got food, and sat at different tables, and then I remember going back to orientation. I think that's when we had a break and we were out on the balcony and I think we chatted briefly on the balcony. But that's really all I remember from that.
[00:11:17] Aubrey: Yeah, so that's pretty close to what I remember too. I was just curious if we'd remember it the same way. The bonus on my side is I had been there already. I think that was week six. And I'd been living in the hotel for most of that because I was the only extern there and they didn't want to provide housing to just me. So I think I had just moved into the employee housing and I remember getting dressed that morning and bitching to my mom that I had to go cause I'd already been there for six weeks and this was the dumbest thing I'd rather just go to work and she had to convince me to stop whining about it basically.
[00:11:53] Ryan: Yeah, you got paid to do it.
[00:11:55] Aubrey: Yeah, that's exactly what she said and finally I was like, all right fair point, you're right. And so I remember [00:12:00] I dressed up because I was like, screw it I get to wear something other than chef whites, I guess I'm gonna try today and I'm glad I did try to look nice. but anyway, I was just sitting in the back doodling and I was like, I don't give any shits about what's happening right now. And then we did that exercise and I was sitting next to my roommate so we had already gotten to know each other and then, I, forgot that Jeremy said it, but yeah, I remember just hearing "Baltimore" and being like, "Oh my God, maybe a friend". Cause I have no friends and I have no connection, I've been living in a room by myself for six weeks. And then. You were so nice. Like I remember distinctly noticing that you were holding the door for literally every single person to go outside
[00:12:41] Ryan: Once you hold the door for one person you can't just like close it on the next so you might as well just stand there and hold it.
[00:12:46] Aubrey: I know and it was so sweet and I just was like, so he's obviously a nice person that's decent and I went up to you and I was like, where are you from? Baltimore or whatever and I think you said something like, "I just say I'm from Baltimore because no one knows anything else, [00:13:00] but I'm actually from Harford County", or something like that. And that's, yeah, when we discovered our parents were like 15 minutes apart. And I think we discovered the rest on the walk to lunch. And then I remember I was going to sit with you. I don't remember why I didn't, but I feel like the table got full or I don't know, maybe I just chickened out or something. I'm not really sure which one it was. and then I do remember on the balcony, I think that's the first time I was ever like, "Alright, he's cute, that's nice", but I wasn't like thinking about it as a relationship or, "Oh, better make a move" or anything like that. I was just like, here's a nice person, he's pretty decent to look at and then you did message me and we ended up chatting for quite a while and realized we had a lot in common.
[00:13:39] Ryan: And here we are.
Music fades in…
[00:13:40] Aubrey: Hi there! Maybe you've noticed, there's no commercials on this show. And that's because we don't currently have any sponsors. And while I do hope, someday in the future, that that will happen, currently, this is totally funded by yours truly. So, if you like the show and would like to help me make sure it continues to exist and [00:14:00] grow, I just wanted to let you know that you can support the show directly by checking out our merch on our website, www.goldenapproachpodcast.com. And in case you didn't know, every person we interview gets to choose a cause of choice. We then make them a custom episode merch piece, and we donate $8 of every shirt and $7 of every tote to that cause. It's vital we do what we ask of others, and we take action to build the world we believe in from the start. So each piece of merch sold could support up to three businesses at once. And I would say that's working smarter, not harder, am I right? So after listening, head to the show notes where we'll have the website page linked. Thank you so, so much because I literally couldn't do this without you.
Music fades out…
[00:14:45] Aubrey: So what do you think are just some of the pros of being with someone who is in, such a similar, intense industry?
[00:15:00] Ryan: Umm cause you know, Taylor Swift's not going to be with some nobody. She's got to be with some superstar footballer 'cause he's the only one who understands and she can relate to who's on that level, and I don't... I just, you get it. You've been there. You know what I'm dealing with. You're not surprised by, the BS I go through and things that happen. Taking me to the ER...
[00:15:23] Aubrey: Yes, you chopped off the top of your thumb. The dropping you off at 6:30 in the morning and then not seeing you again until 11 o'clock at night. So, it's a pro because it's relatable, but that doesn't make it any less difficult to live. So, can you remember any of your favorite ways that we've tried to make it work to our advantage?
[00:15:45] Ryan: You can't, what did your mom say? You gotta choose.
[00:15:46] Aubrey: Pick and choose your battles.
[00:15:48] Ryan: She said that at our wedding. She said that at David's wedding, before our wedding, so.
[00:15:52] Aubrey: I bring up so many Elizabeth-isms on this show. Yeah, I think some of the best advice I've ever gotten. But, to be clear, I feel like in the beginning [00:16:00] when I first tried that one, I would say "Pick and choose my battles" but sometimes I would pick things based on how I thought you would respond, your preferences. And as I got older, I got better at picking and choosing the battles of the things that like really were important to me and that I needed resolved versus being like, "Oh, I'll just play like the nice card and put it off", or "I'll circle back to it", or "he'll figure it out eventually". And as you've told me, you can't read my mind. And I've struggled to sometimes find the words but I think as I get older at least I've gotten better at trying to be more clear why things are bothering me and not just that something is bothering me.
[00:16:41] Ryan: Yeah, you don't figure it out eventually. Somebody finally blows up and that's how you figure it out if you don't tell the person. It helps that you can just text the other person now. You can think about what you're gonna say, how you're gonna say it and be strategic.
[00:16:56] Aubrey: That's true. I didn't think about when I was reminiscing, but [00:17:00] I think we've done that too where there have been certain times where something's felt really big and we've actually just written out how we're feeling. Like I think one time I literally wrote you a note cause I couldn't figure out how to say it in a way that felt effective and like true to what I was actually feeling to your face. I don't know why, but I just remember feeling like I couldn't find the words to say it to your face.
[00:17:29] Ryan: Words are important, and it's important how they get received. So that's why I prefer type communication because I can go back and I can look at what I said and okay, is this how I want to say this clearly and concisely? Is this, conveying what I'm trying to say? Is there any room for interpretation? And then you get to go back and just think about it and change it until it's exactly what you need to say rather than just getting passionate and blurting something out that's going to haunt you for the next 30 [00:18:00] years. So that's why I need usually to take some time just to think about it. And I don't know, in my experience, a lot of the times that people have issues, especially in the moment, it's not the same issue they have 10 minutes after the moment or the same issue they have an hour after whatever happened, or the next day. they have thought about it, and they've either, you know, I was being silly, I made a mistake, or, no, this person really did me dirty. And then you can deal with it accordingly and hopefully only one time.
[00:18:29] Aubrey: Yes. And this is one that you taught me too. I was someone that always wanted to just deal with the thing and you always wanted time. And when we first got together, it didn't work as well because we didn't set the proper boundaries of when it was going to come back around. So then I would just be left stressing freaking out and overthinking the situation, all the different things that you might say. Whereas I feel like eventually we got better about that's fine. You can take space, but you have to [00:19:00] come back within 24 hours kind of thing. And I think I grew a lot from being forced to get to take the time and I think you grew by having that boundary set that you had to circle back to it.
[00:19:13] Ryan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, it comes back for you in the end. No matter what it is in your relationship and your work. So you can put it off as long as you want, but usually, it just grows and gets worse if you don't deal with it. But at the same time, if you deal with it too quickly, then it doesn't get resolved in the way that you want. It can do more harm than good.
[00:19:29] Aubrey: And talking about skills that we use at work and how those skills can apply to home. Everyone teaches you this about work emails. I feel like I've heard this so many times at work of people being like, don't you know, instinct response to emails, but I don't feel like I ever have anyone telling me that advice for my personal relationships. And I think it's completely applicable.
[00:19:52] Ryan: Yeah, for sure. depending on what your job is, I feel like a lot of your work skills, if they work for you there, why wouldn't they work for you at [00:20:00] home? If you have a skill that works for you, use it. If it doesn't work for you, don't.
[00:20:03] Aubrey: Exactly. And honestly, that has always been the point of the show that I'm trying to drive home is that there doesn't have to be so much separation between how we approach work and how we approach life. And that actually if we just approached business the way we approach life and approached life the way life needs to be approached that we'd all be a lot happier and we'd make a lot more progress. You just learn how to treat people. So what are some things that you think that maybe have been the hardest to overcome and, or maybe we haven't even figured out yet?
[00:20:38] Ryan: Um, I can't, I really can't think of anything that's been, you know, we've been, we've had some money, we've not had money, we've had some money, we've had no money. I think I think everything is situational so if something needs to change Then it needs to change I can't just not do the thing because it's just not an [00:21:00] option. I have to do it. You need me to do it. I have to do it.
[00:21:02] Aubrey: I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm grateful you feel that way, because I don't think everyone necessarily does, and I do consider that one the reason why I'm lucky to have the partner that I do.
[00:21:13] Ryan: I agree. I feel like we've gotten better at communicating if anything, because we don't see each other much. So we need to say what we need to say when we need to say it, and so we do that. And then also we've gotten very good at nonverbal communication. We can just look at each other, and we've been together long enough, we know what the other one's feeling nine times out of 10. So, I don't know. Things get easier as you get older and you go on and things get harder and it's just don't deal with the same issues twice. If it's an issue, deal with it and then, it won't be an issue again. And it's easier said than done, obviously.
[00:21:56] Aubrey: Yeah, I agree. I don't think I've ever used this to describe us, but at [00:22:00] least at work, I always say it's not about making mistakes. It's about making the same mistakes. And it's not to say that never do you accidentally make the same mistake. I don't mean it like that, but if you do something and you don't course correct, then yeah, you're probably likely to repeat the same thing.
[00:22:16] Ryan: That's literally human growth. You make mistakes, and you learn from your mistakes, and then that's how we grow. I don't want Aubrey telling me, "Take out the trash" a million times.
[00:22:25] Aubrey: Yes.
[00:22:25] Ryan: I'm just going to learn to take the trash out. She's having to yell at me once a week. It's not fun for either of us.
[00:22:31] Aubrey: Luckily, I'm not much of a yeller, so at least you don't have to listen to that, but...
[00:22:35] Ryan: Yeah, again, we're good at nonverbal communication. It's not what you say, it's how you say it.
[00:22:40] Aubrey: Touché. That's not wrong. That's not wrong at all. And I think you better than almost the entire world definitely can pinpoint that. Despite us saying how we don't spend time together, we've at least spent enough years together that yeah, I can say something one way, and you're like, yep, that's not as [00:23:00] chill as someone might think that is.
[00:23:03] Ryan: Yeah. For sure.
[00:23:05] Aubrey: I think it all comes back to we don't fight dirty. We take turns. And one of the ones I didn't mention, but I think applies to this is that like we find joy in making the other person happy. We've talked about this before where I can't only find happiness through your happiness, but I do absolutely find happiness through being able to make you happy. And that works because we both are committed. If I was the only one committed, then that wouldn't be as effective, but because we're both committed to that, like it works fine. And then, happy spouse, happy house as they say, but, no, because we're both committed I feel like all those kinds of things we've always been able to work through and find a solution and that's why we don't really have fights. So I guess tell me about ways that you feel like we made it work to be able to support, growing our careers, putting [00:24:00] in the time and doing the work, but also maintaining a relationship that we were happy to be in and felt like it was supportive and fulfilling.
[00:24:14] Ryan: Well it, I remember when we first moved in together we moved our stuff in, and then I had to go to work that night and I really didn't want to go to work cause I was excited to be there and like unpack our stuff so I feel like that, that's helped a lot. I don't know, just setting the tone.
[00:24:30] Aubrey: Yeah, absolutely. I think even though you had to go to work, you were still so in the moment like I remember you were so excited and really supportive and expressive about being excited to move in together. And so even though I knew you were going to have to go later, like it still felt like a shared experience and special, 'cause that was our first time moving in together. And you had bought like a bottle of champagne. And we opened it up and we got to have that while we unpacked and celebrated our new space [00:25:00] together. So it still felt like we had made a point to make this feel special.
[00:25:05] Ryan: that's literally what we were trained for, too, is to make things special and nice. I'm not, discounting anybody because of that. I'm just saying, with culinary school, it gives you, the eye and the attention to detail. And you are in the hospitality industry, so taking care of people is something that you already have to like, which is important.
[00:25:20] Aubrey: and I think it's a good reminder that, and I feel like we've worked on this over the years in the sense of, not just putting that energy out to work, but that there also needs to be some of that effort and energy in. It can get really easy to constantly obsess about how to make things, better, how to support your team, how to better care for the guests, or how am I expanding my career? How am I growing? Whatever it is that you're focused on at the moment, and you're right. All of those skills are just as easily applied to the home. And I think that, sometimes it works to our advantage in this way of like thinking about the [00:26:00] details and getting the champagne and like making this feel like an experience and I think we should honestly ground ourselves in that more often, but then, there is also the flip side too of like how work influences your efforts. And I think that's like why I try to keep the fridge as organized as I do. And I'm always upset that it's never as organized as I want it to be, cause I'm like, we do it at work.
[00:26:21] Ryan: That's why I don't want to do it at home.
[00:26:22] Aubrey: I know. I know. So it's just, it's funny how those are both true.
[00:26:28] Ryan: I think they say the plumber's house is always the one with the leakiest pipe.
[00:26:31] Aubrey: To your point about the plumber's house, I think that has been the hardest part in our own sort of maturing as adults and like caring and investing in ourselves, but also doing those things as a couple who both work in a similar field. And I think that's one of the interesting challenges about this industry is because when you're caring for other people, you're cooking food, you're cleaning things, you're organizing things. [00:27:00] Those are all skills that are so applicable to personal life. So I was curious if you had any specific examples of things some approaches that were really important to point out?
[00:27:17] Ryan: I don't remember anything specific, I don't remember like anything that you've like said or done I don't know, we've just tried to do little things for each other you're just like you know I don't see you all day so if I can leave you a note you'll see at some point just send you a text throughout the day to let you know I'm thinking of you.
[00:27:36] Aubrey: Yeah, I was gonna say some of my favorite that you've done are um that you do leave me notes That you've left me notes from day one even in culinary school and when I opened my little pocket notebook, a note would fall out. And then I'd get to go back to my dorm room I used to get to find them like an Easter egg scavenger hunt. which was really sweet. And I still have so many of them. Um, [00:28:00] but like a more recent example is I remember just a couple of years ago, I think during COVID, We would share playlists with each other. And then listen to the same playlist at work. And I thought that was such a nice way because we didn't actually have to interact. It wasn't a bunch of back-and-forth texting or whatnot because we were both busy but it was just enough to know that there was some connection in some way.
[00:28:24] Ryan: Yeah, we could, we could never, have a conversation 'cause we just never had time. And then one person would just never respond and it would stop or the other person would feel bad that they didn't respond or whatever so just just all had to be very brief.
[00:28:37] Aubrey: Exactly. I think the other hard part too is when you come home you don't really want to talk about work. Like I'm already having to come home and clean more things and cook more things and organize more things and do all the same things that I just spent the last 12 to 14 hours of the day doing. And so I feel like that's why that one worked as well as it did too, is because not only was it like a [00:29:00] nice way to stay connected at work, but I feel like when we came home, we actually had something about our day that we could talk about with each other like, Oh, I liked this song or, Oh, did you listen to the whole thing or what, I don't even remember specific examples, but I just remember it would give us some kind of like talking point that wasn't food or kitchen drama related. And that was a rarity and still is a rarity in a lot of ways. I also on that note I don't remember when we started this but something like the car ride home was where we were allowed to bitch about things.
[00:29:37] Ryan: It was one of the jobs I was driving home at night. I would call you to let you know I was on my way home, and then we would just start complaining about our day.
[00:29:44] Aubrey: I do think that was a really effective approach as well to be able to guarantee that there was a time you could get it out of your system, but that considering that was the main things we had to talk about that we didn't get lost in it either.
[00:29:57] Ryan: Yeah, you can't let that stuff eat at you.
[00:30:00] Aubrey: No. Another one I had was your like secret photobombs
[00:30:05] Ryan: My secret photo, like when you leave your phone out? Yeah. So my favorite feature of the iPhone, I think you can do it with Android too, they might have updated it so you can't, but iPhone you can, is you don't have to unlock your phone to use the camera. So a lot of times when people will just leave their - especially at work - when people leave their phone out, I will photobomb. I'll just take a selfie of myself or the line or whatever. Something random, and I want to say 7 times out of 10, you never hear anything about it. Probably 1 out of 10, you hear something within the hour or the next day, and then the other 20 percent of the time, months go by and then somebody brings it up, and at that point, you've forgotten that you've done it.
[00:30:56] Aubrey: I feel that 100% cause like some of them I [00:31:00] have definitely found pretty quickly and then others they've literally uploaded to my Google Drive and then I'll be clearing out my Google Drive and then be like what the heck is this, I don't remember this one and I also appreciate that they're all over the place. Some are really silly. Some are sweet. Like I think that's one of my favorite things about how you approach the things is that it's never very one note. It really ranges
[00:31:25] Ryan: I mean, it's a silly thing to do, so..
[00:31:27] Aubrey: I mean, I guess it's a silly but it's a sweet thing and I think one of the other ones I did want to touch on that we started specifically during COVID that I think is really helpful because COVID was a very interesting time, I think, in comparison to the rest, because here we're doing all this talking about all this time we spend apart and how we never see each other and then COVID happened. And for the first time in literally, I think a decade since we were going to school, when COVID hit and then we were in quarantine for three months And then we were together all the [00:32:00] time. Like I feel like that could have gone either really poorly because we had grown apart or realized that we couldn't be in each other's space anymore because we're so used to being alone but during COVID we would do check-ins and we'd be like, I think we used to say is it an us night or a me night? Things like that. And we didn't take offense if the other one was like, I really want it to be a me night. And it's okay, great. I'm gonna, you're gonna go play video games and I'm gonna go read my book or whatever it is.
[00:32:32] Ryan: Yeah. Yeah, I remember doing that. vaguely, but it sounds like something we would do. I don't know, it's just both how we approach it. I feel like, it's you're you and I'm me. And, we're us when we're together, but we're two separate people. And you have your things and I have my things, and I don't like all your things. You don't like all my things.
[00:32:54] Aubrey: I find it interesting that despite the fact we spend so much time apart, that we're still really good at being willing to give [00:33:00] even more space, because I feel like a lot of people, when they're already apart so much, they wouldn't want to lose out on what little they have. And I, I still think that reminder to ourselves that even though we're apart a lot, like that also means we're committed to doing stuff for other people. And we haven't had that time to like process our day or do the things that we're passionate about.
[00:33:25] Ryan: I don't know. There's just so many distractions, from everything. And everyone's relationship is different and needs to work for the people involved. And, when we're together, it's usually we're spending time with each other. We're, focused on each other. It's not like we're just sitting next to each other, both just texting other people so, we do have limited time together, but we try and make it impactful. And at least, carve that time out for each other. Which I think is important. Even if it's just like a one TV episode of something, while we shove food in our face.
[00:34:00] Aubrey: Yeah, I think that's what sort of ties it in a little bow together more in the sense that okay it's good to set boundaries on like how your work trickles into your home life. Okay, it's important to set boundaries to still allow yourselves to be individuals, however, when you do actually spend the time together because you're allowing for those other things that you really do have to be committed and focused and invested in that time together.
[00:34:30] Ryan: Yeah you have to give people space to grow. You can't smother them. You gotta help them support each other. Yeah. You gotta support them and help them grow, but you can't smother them
[00:34:38] Aubrey: and I think that we do really well at this. I also think sometimes like we have to do check-ins with each other where it's like, Hey, okay, we're spending this time, but we're just getting comfortable, like numbing, at the end of the day and just zoning out and it's as simple as like reaching over and holding hands or like leaning and cuddling with each other at night or something like that. Something [00:35:00] that even if we're not doing an activity or like technically a quote "bonding experience" that we're finding a way to like physically still just connect with each other in such a small way because sometimes I think we even forget, you know about that part and we'll fall into our routines. So I think all the components are really important to honor that it can't just be all about work it can't be all about the couple and it can't all be about the individual but You really do need to figure out how to have a piece of all three. So that way both can feel as like fulfilled as possible and continue to grow as much as like they want to grow. And since we're both working towards similar goals in the sense of, being leaders, building teams, trying to put out quality at the places that we work it can become easy sometimes when we're like talking to the other one about problems that we have. And I know maybe this is more my problem than your problem, but I absolutely think we both do this [00:36:00] of trying to share what works for us and sometimes forgetting the individualism of the situation. And I think we're starting to get better at that. Like the listening versus the advice thing. Cause we've tried to start that where we'll check-in.
[00:36:17] Ryan: Yeah I'm venting I don't want your advice don't tell me what I need to do right now because I know what I need to do I don't need you telling me what to do I just need you to listen.
[00:36:25] Aubrey: Yeah and I think it's been really helpful to just call that out cause then we can just better actually give the person what they need versus lost time when you have such limited time as it is anyway, you don't want to waste it. Giving something that the other person didn't actually need. And then also waste time feeling discouraged by your partner because they didn't meet you where you're at. And then you've wasted what little you did have. And that's where the bitterness grows.
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[00:36:53] Aubrey: Okay, pardon one more quick selfless plug. We are now affiliate partners of bookshop.org, [00:37:00] an organization dedicated to supporting local bookstores and a direct competitor to Amazon, who honestly just doesn't need any more of our money. So please consider checking out our bookshelf through our affiliate link in the show notes to not only support our show, but other small businesses. Trust me, we appreciate it way more than those big guys. Okay, let's dive back in.
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[00:37:25] Aubrey: So I guess my last question is, and this is one of my kind of staple questions on the podcast, is if you could tell your younger self something, what would you tell them? What like head-start would you, do you wish you could give your younger self?
[00:37:42] Ryan: Any age?
[00:37:45] Aubrey: Yeah, it could have been literally last week. You're older than last week. but just in general, whatever.
[00:37:50] Ryan: Yeah. I don't know. That's, there's not like one thing that would be, I would kicking myself for, I've made plenty of mistakes and I've done [00:38:00] plenty of things I'm proud of that I wouldn't change much. I don't know. I just tell myself we don't grow up, we grow old. I'm still the same kid I was 20 years ago, 30 years ago. I've just been through more, and I have different coping mechanisms, and different skill sets to deal with different issues. I think if I had to give relationship advice, it would be just to not put your relationship in a box. Because I feel like everyone, even though they don't say it, everyone has an idea of what marriage is like, or what a relationship is, and what they want out of it. And the more that you, pre-plan it and expect out of it, the more disappointed you're gonna be. Because you might be able to find something that ticks all your boxes, but then, in a few years you're gonna have boxes you didn't know that you needed ticked or some of the stuff that mattered to you when you were younger is not gonna matter anymore. And so...
[00:39:00] Aubrey: yeah. I agree. I've actually given this one as advice a few times, and I do think it's important to remember that you may not change necessarily like people don't technically change, but they do evolve. Like I always describe it as Pokemon like it's they're all originating from the same Pokemon right but like they evolve into different advanced versions I know it's a really cheesy nerdy way to put it but that's the best way I've found to like describe what I mean. And so, while we're not totally different people we're also evolved, more experienced versions, as you're saying of ourselves. And so when I was looking for a partner, it was important for me to find someone who was kind and open-minded and patient and would want to grow together and could withstand the ebb and flow of who I am and figuring out who I want to be and all those things, especially cause I met you when I [00:40:00] was 20, and if I want to be with you long-term, like I need someone who's really along for the ride. so, I just, I agree. Anyway Thanks, Ryan, so much for doing this. I really appreciate you.
[00:40:12] Ryan: Happy to help.
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[00:40:14] Aubrey: Thanks for listening to the Golden Approach podcast And we are actually going to be back with a new episode in three weeks. We are currently batch recording a bunch of interviews with really awesome people. So I hope that you will forgive us for taking an extra week, but we really want to make sure that we put out the best quality possible. So Keep an eye on our Instagram as well for updates of who you'll be hearing from next. But in the meantime, you can check out our show notes for more details, such as references in this episode and on our website, Golden Approach Podcast as always for things such as transcripts and episode merchandise. And lastly, if you've liked this episode or any episode before it, please consider supporting the show by leaving a review and [00:41:00] giving us a follow wherever you're listening right now. And bonus, maybe share with a friend. Thank you so much for your time. We'll talk again soon. Bye bye.
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