Vulnerability & Personal Growth with Aubrey Shaffner
EP 211 with Aubrey Shaffner
Host, Pastry Chef, Educator
In this heartfelt episode of The Golden Approach, host Aubrey reflects on personal challenges with vulnerability, self-expression, and control, sharing insights from dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT). As the new year approaches, Aubrey encourages personal reflection, gratitude, and grounding practices for growth. The episode explores setting goals, understanding the root of desires, and focusing on impact over perfection, with the aim of building better relationships and a kinder, more curious world.
EPISODE OUTLINE
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Golden Approach
[00:00:26] Overcoming Childhood Fears
[00:02:53] Personal Reflection and Gratitude
[00:05:37] The Impact of DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy)
[00:07:40] Going to the Root
[00:20:03] Playing the Infinite Game, Learning Daily Improvements
[00:30:35] End of Year Reflections and Announcements
RESOURCES
Where to Find Us:
Mentioned in the Episode:
DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy)
EP 204: Call of our Soul with Elyse Preston
Ways to Support the Show:
Join us on Ko-fi for exclusive content
Explore our bookshelf on Bookshop.org
TRANSCRIPT
Music fades in…
[00:00:00] Aubrey: Hi, Sunshine, and welcome to the show. I'm your host, Aubrey, a hopeful romantic who's always loved getting to know others and learning what I don't know. Here I chat with kindhearted humans and insightful professionals sharing their stories to learn from each other's experiences in hope of going beyond the golden rule and collectively building a more kind and curious world for all, this is the golden approach. I'm so grateful you're here.
Music fades out…
Overcoming Childhood Fears
[00:00:26] Aubrey: Despite what it seems, speaking in front of people and being open and honest about myself honestly makes me so uncomfortable and I think it's funny that I keep trying to do solo episodes and things like that because they just like bring up so many feelings of when I was a kid and I remember I really wanted to be in plays, so desperately wanted to be an actor and I'd go for
[00:01:00] Aubrey: auditions and I just like, couldn't the words just would not come out of my mouth. No matter like how much in my head I just said, let it out. Let it out. And it just like, wouldn't happen. Or like in dance class, when we would have to do an improv exercise, like, Lord, help me. Or even singing I just couldn't sing in front of people. And that took literally up until meeting my husband to learn any level of confidence in singing in front of another human being. So I think it's just funny that I have a podcast, um, which again, I think to the outside world seems like a really natural fit, but it is the most, like, terrifying thing that I have ever done, the most vulnerable thing that I have ever done. And I have tried throughout this process to keep using like structure and rules as a way to
Personal Reflection and Gratitude
[00:02:00] Aubrey: be able to accomplish this and to be able to better translate what I'm saying to people or whatever it is. And sometimes I think it's worked fine and it's really helped grow us to where we are, and I'm really grateful for that. But a lot of times it just... either traps me, I guess is the way to put it, or people can tell that I'm using a lot of structure and boundaries and they don't feel like I'm being as open or vulnerable, um, or whatever the word you want to use here is. And to an extent it's true because every time I go to do one of these I just start convincing myself and thoughts-spiraling of like, “why does anyone care?” “Why does anyone even need to listen to this ramble?” Um, and so if you start feeling that way, I'll take no offense. I understand. But all of this to say is, I've been sitting with these feelings a lot recently
[00:03:00] Aubrey: because my birthday is coming up. And so naturally this time of year, I always start sort of doing a lot of like personal reflection on what do I think has gone well? What do I want to carry into the next year? What do I want to do better? All those things. And coincidentally, my birthday just happens to be at the end of the year when everyone else tends to be having these same thought spirals. Um, whether it be because you, Do New Year's resolutions or you follow the winter solstice, whatever it is, you know, so I find that we all tend to be in this boat around the same time anyway. So, that's what this episode really is going to focus on like personal reflection, gratitude and some of the ways that I'm trying to ground myself for this next year, moving forward. And one of the, the first ways of doing that, that I've been really working on for a few years now, is, um,practicing to be more relaxed and
[00:04:00] Aubrey: letting go. And I do find that it tends to lead towards, you know, deeper and better relationships and deeper and better understanding in most things, um, especially in a year like this year that has had a lot of high highs and a lot of low lows. And I know everyone's definition of what those are is very individual. Um, so that's not the point of picking, you know, specific examples. The point is more so just like, I think we're all feeling sort of this very wide ocean of feelings and sort of trying to figure out how to best process and sort moving forward. And so one of the things in my love for control that I have learned over the years that the only thing you can truly control is yourself; your mind and your body. Everything else beyond that is totally influenced.
[00:05:00] Aubrey: Even our mind and our body is influenced by the world outside of us, but at least those things we can control what we take in, you know, what we nourish ourselves with, how digestible are those things for us, knowing our bodies and our minds well enough to know what makes us feel, energized and inspired and what makes us feel worn down and spent. So you'll have to answer those questions for yourself.
The Impact of DBT (dialectical behavioral therapy)
[00:05:37] Aubrey: But for me being able to find the answers to those questions has come from the type of therapy that I have used, so that way. I can ask these questions and figure out what the answers are for myself. So that type of therapy is called DBT or dialectical behavioral therapy. And just simply put, this is an evidence based psychotherapy. It's designed to help with emotional regulation, um, and being able to sort of like figure out how to deal with interpersonal conflicts and
[00:06:00] Aubrey: helping with mood, um, and behavior patterns, things of that nature and what your version of this could mean again, could be very personal. Um, but for me, it just means that I was looking for something that could help me really be able to take all the feelings that I feel and learn how to process them. Because as I mentioned at the top of the episode, I had for some reason my entire life that whenever I felt emotions and feelings, I just like put a lid on it and locked it and was just like, Nope, we're not going there. We're not sharing those things. Why would anyone have any interest in those things? As I got older, it was like packing a suitcase. Like now I had to sit on it to zipper it. Um, Okay. Now the zipper broke in my attempt. So I'm just going to sit something on top of it to weigh it down and that'll keep it closed. And it just, you know, eventually burst at the seams and I was like, Hey girl, you, you need to deal with this. And who knows, maybe
Going to the Root
[00:07:00] Aubrey: that's where like the baggage metaphor that I'm obsessed with has come from. Um, if you don't know what I'm talking about that means you're not listening to enough episodes selfishly I'll say, so go back and listen to a few episodes from the season and it'll all make perfect sense. So Thanks to this work, I've been able to personally find myself going really back to the root. And this is something that I started using a lot as a manager over the last few years with my team members , and it's worked really well personally and professionally. So I thought it would be worth sharing with you. , and this could be something that you already technically do, or maybe you think about, and just the way it's described is a little different. Um, and if it isn't something you do at all, then hopefully it's helpful to you, but I have always found it's so important to go to the root of something for two big reasons. One, you can't Truly deal with something, right? If you don't actually understand the real problem. So that's the
[00:08:00] Aubrey: given kind of obvious answer. But the 2nd part is in life there tends to be sort of 2 options. You're rarely doing both. Typically, there's what you want to happen. And then there's how you want it to happen, and I tend to lean towards prioritizing what I want to happen, what I want the result to be, and I try to stay really open minded about the how but these days, I think A lot of us can get really stuck on the, like, semantics and the personal how versus the, like, overall desire of the end goal. Um, and so we never truly, like, reach the end goal because we're so busy trying to make the, the process match the way we think the process should be happening. Um, a good example of this, and I think I've mentioned this on the show before in like season one, but, when a chef would teach me a certain way on how to make something and they'd say like,
[00:09:00] Aubrey: Oh, I want you to do it exactly like this, but I just couldn't replicate the same result that they had. by doing it the exact same way they did. You know, it's just, it's like a fingerprint. My hands don't work that way, or my mind doesn't work that way, or whatever it is that's just acting as a roadblock. And so I would tweak things in the process so I could get the end result that they wanted, the quality finish that they wanted. And some chefs were content with that. And other chefs, if they found out that I had been tweaking the process, it didn't matter if I had the same result, they were pretty peeved. And they were just like, no, I showed you this way. That's what I said. I'm the chef do it. And that was really challenging for me for many years because I, whether I like it or not, I just don't tend to function exactly the same way as the majority share of people. I always sort of tend to be a little left field and so this was a
[00:10:00] Aubrey: really important lesson throughout my career. And then as I became a manager myself okay, well, what really is important to me? Is it the end result or is it the process? And for me, it has always been the end result. And so being able to do DBT therapy, again, it's not about trying to tell you, you have to go to therapy or you have to do this type of therapy or whatever. It's just sort of, encouraging, like there's another resource to add to your toolbox out there. Um, so this particular type of therapy does tend, in my opinion, to support that kind of growth of understanding what is the root, what really matters, and then how to work backwards from there to get where I want to go or to help others understand me or get where they want to go or whatever it is. A lot of times to even be able to do that. You have to go even one step further. So a lot of us will tend to
[00:11:00] Aubrey: know what we want, but do we know why we want it? And this, to me, has been really the big question of my year. Why do I want any of the things that I've said that I've wanted? Do I want them because I truly want them, or because other people taught me to want them, or because society says I should want them? And so forth and so on. And so I've really tried to challenge myself over this past year to understand, like, what really brings me peace and joy and awe and wonder and feels beautiful and all these things, right? And how you'll define those again, very personal. And , this is a very challenging thing. Even if someone is bold and open as I am, it is very hard for me to feel confident in sharing things that bring me joy. An example of this is like when I'd work in the
[00:12:00] Aubrey: bake shops and people would be like, Oh, Aubrey, it's your turn, you pick out the music for the day. Oh my Lord. That would send me into such a stress ball. I could not handle it. And that's crazy. Like. Someone just asked me to put on some music, right? We all have our Spotify or Apple accounts or whatever it is. It shouldn't be that complicated and yet it felt like the end of the world. Like that was too much vulnerability to share with another human. So I, I think that it's important to check ourselves on like, what are the things that are triggering us and where those boundaries have been set. But in the end, I just tried to remind myself that the gift to myself and to others is to be able to be more relaxed and to let go because it leads to better relationships and understanding all around. So now controlling myself, you know, quote unquote, controlling myself now means being Open to letting myself feel this awe and this wonder fully in the world and then challenging
[00:13:00] Aubrey: myself to be willing to share that with others. An example of accountability is doing this episode. It just intimidates me so much. I literally. I don't know. I just get in my head about all, all the things and all the reasons. So this is why it's like so important to go back to that root and understand why those feelings are the way they are, why are they triggering or whatever it is that you're experiencing. One of the ways you can better understand this, I've found is by asking, how did I learn this? Why did I learn this? And this question can apply in many more ways than this one particular example. This could also just be about, I don't know, any kind of habit that you have, like When you exercise, why do you exercise that way? Did you learn it because it's actually what's best for your body or is it just because your parents did it that way? And so you do it that way or whatever it is, right? So this is a very like universal
[00:14:00] Aubrey: question that you can apply to whatever you're experiencing but for me, it's all rooted in this sort of, um, Openness and vulnerability aspect. And so I do ask myself, why am I like this? Where did I learn these behaviors? And I. As I said, have some things that I do keep close to myself and out of respect for other people in my life. I'm not going to start getting all very psychoanalytical about every reason why I have issues with shame and vulnerability. But to say that we all have had experiences in our lives that have chipped away at this confidence to express ourselves fully and it is easy to see why in the world that we currently live in that tends to promote a lot of, uniformity And so it's understandable that all of us in our own way would be experiencing some form of shame and vulnerability for openly
[00:15:00] Aubrey: expressing ourselves, and being our most vulnerable selves, this time of year. is the perfect time to really focus on things like gratitude and reflection and letting go. And I have learned that when you play stupid games, you win stupid prizes. So I am trying really hard to stop playing stupid games. And an example of that is mental gymnastics. which means when a situation happens, I like to bend and flip in every direction in my brain, like, I'm keeping up with Simone Biles on how intricate and insane the routines that I'm putting myself through are. also if you haven't watched the Simone Biles documentary on Netflix, I will say it is absolutely fantastic. And I'm just going to do a random plug for it. So I highly recommend go watch it. But the point is that like, this doesn't serve me. This is a lot of energy that I don't personally have
[00:16:00] Aubrey: to waste as an ADHD person. I have only so much bandwidth for focus and when I'm using that energy towards things that excite me, but for fake reasons, It's not helping me produce anything of quality in my life or move forward or build better habits. It's just forcing me to run in circles and do mental gymnastics in my brain. So, as I approach this next year, I start asking myself, okay, well, what do we do with that information? That's great that we even know what's happening, but what are we going to do with that that changes literally anything? So I started writing things down and what I came out of that reflection is that I really do need to focus and rely on trusted resources and confidants. And I'm really grateful to have those in my life. And this is a good moment of check that like, if you don't feel like you have those in your life, well, great now you know where you need to start, that you need to figure out how
[00:17:00] Aubrey: to find those people that you can connect with, who can see your authentic self and encourage you to be your authentic self in a healthy and growing kind of way, and not just like to use your energy to their advantage. And so every time someone writes to me and tells me, Hey, I like listening to your show or whenever I have guests come on and like in the most recent episode when Dru made a comment about how he was learning things about himself and he enjoyed hearing all the stories of all these other people. And it encouraged him to get to know himself better. Like that means the absolute world to me. And it's not about compliments, but it's about knowing that something you're doing is positively impacting community and the people around you, that you're feeling like you get to reciprocate things that are being given to you and that you're finding ways to be able to share them with other people. Cause those kinds of things do
[00:18:00] Aubrey: make you feel good. And we should all want to make each other and ourselves, like, just. Feel better in a, again, really authentic, genuine way. Um, so I think that this is sort of a great check for myself on how to find the wins of the year and know that like the work is working, um, but to be able to still lay groundwork and to set goals and whatever it is to be able to grow more in that way. Um, so. So yeah, so I'm trying to give up some mental gymnastics in this upcoming year. Another example is my paralyzing version of people pleasing perfectionism. Say that four times fast. I've come to terms that it is truly an unattainable goal. Um, again, it's something that deprives me of energy and capacity to be able to create things that actually can make real impact, whether it be for myself or for other people. And sort of a part B of this is Giving up what I've been
Playing the Infinite Game, Learning Daily Improvements
[00:19:00] Aubrey: calling like man made games and trying to really focus on things that are more infinite and solid. I was given a really good book recently that I think is worth mentioning here. I know that it came out a little bit ago, so maybe you've heard of it, maybe you haven't, but it's called The Infinite Game. It's by Simon Sinek and he is, of course, Very popular. you've probably seen one of his Ted Talks or podcast things or whatever. He's been out there for quite a while, quite a few books and I will give him credit that he is able to take ideas and make them very concise and very catchy for people. And so I thought that this was a really good reference. And I'm actually going to add it to our bookshelf on bookshop.org. That'll be linked in the show notes as always. So if you know me, you know, I love a book and I love a book recommendation and I add all my favorite books or come from guests who've been on the show to our bookshelf and you get to support us and small bookstores. And that feels like a real win-win, especially this time of year.
[00:20:00] Aubrey: So anyway, go check out our bookshelf. The point is the infinite game, right? We can all decide which game we're playing. Now, sometimes. We need to play a finite game. It's the holiday season. It is the pastry triathlon season of the year, meaning we just had Thanksgiving. You know, we thought we were going to sell like two dozen pies and it ended up being over 100 pies and to me, that's a perfect example of a finite game in the sense of I know what the rules are. I know what the boundaries are. I know that if I train appropriately, prepare and set things up, For success that like I can win that game and it was a little stressful but I and the team had laid the groundwork necessary to be prepared for whatever was thrown our way, and in the end, I would consider us having won that game. But life is an infinite game. There's no real winner in the end, you're still gonna have to leave all those things behind.
[00:21:00]Aubrey: Anyway, so we're all sort of in the same boat here. And when you're playing the infinite game, which is something I've always done, but I, , I like this sort of catchy way of describing it that he has in the book, it focuses a lot more on what small choices can I make every single day. To be able to work towards where I'm going. To just be like 1 percent better or 1 percent closer to what you're trying to accomplish. And this could be individual, this could be as a community, as a planet, whatever it is, and so I start to really hone in to that root coming full circle in this conversation. So I start thinking about, okay, what is the root of what I'm trying to accomplish with my life personally? I am just trying to make this world a little bit better than I found it. That's it. That's all I want to do. So what is one small thing I can do each and every day that I can
[00:22:00] Aubrey: control about myself that allows me to do that. And some days it really is as simple as I have the capacity to do something. Be a cheery person, so I'm going to smile at people. I'm going to wave and say, thank you. I'm going to ask them how their day is as I walk by. And some people might say that is not as impactful as you think it is, but I would argue in today's climate it is one of the most impactful things that you can actually do. , But it's so easy, right? Like maybe that's not easy for everyone, but for me, it's something that I have a lot of capacity for. It makes me feel really good feeling like I got to connect with someone, or maybe I made their day a little better. Um, I reminded them that not everyone is an asshole, whatever it is, right? It's a win- win scenario and it's that one-percent better. So, I challenge you to ask yourself similar things. What do you have capacity for at your root that you're really good at and that
[00:23:00] Aubrey: you can carry forward into this world that benefits you and other people? And a great way to figure these kinds of things out, was inspired by an event that Elyse, who was a guest on the show this season, had recently for her own birthday celebration. So belated happy birthday to her. And it was just so simple and to the point that I just want to share this little piece of that event that she had. So if you even like this, then I recommend you check out her events. I feel like I'm doing a lot of plugs this episode. I don't mean to, I just mean, as these are all things that have been so helpful for me. And again, I just really like to help other people. So maybe at least one of these things will be helpful to you. So in this, uh, event and the exercise that we did. It's so simple. Just write down three to five things that you want to embrace in the new year and three to five things that you want to let go of from
[00:24:00] Aubrey: this year. But the important thing is the part-B of that. So I think a lot of times people do this. They'll say, Oh, I want to start this habit and I want to, you know, abandon this habit or break this habit, however you want to put it. Um, but the part B question that I think really is where you get that root that I was talking about is, To ask yourself, once you've done that part A, and you have to do the part-A first, is what are patterns that you notice in your responses? And I challenge you to go beyond just like a, oh, I have a lot of things I want to start, but it's like, why are you feeling so motivated to start things? That's a good question. That's an exciting thing to ask yourself. Oh man, why is it right now I'm feeling so fired up to create and to share and to make something I think that'll help you understand sort of where you are. In your own journey, and that becomes
[00:25:00] Aubrey: really the powerhouse of being able to accomplish things. So, I'm not going to read you everything I wrote when I did this exercise myself, but I found that for me, a lot of it is true. To the point of this entire episode and sort of probably one of the reasons why I'm doing this episode is because one of the patterns I was finding is I'm so eager to do all these things, but I'm finding that I have a lot of trepidation when it comes to actually being vulnerable and open and that I ask myself a lot, like, Why do people care that I'm sharing this, even though in my core, I have seen it help people. I've felt it help myself. And yet still, when I put a microphone in front of me, instead of a person, all of a sudden it becomes, why does anyone care? And so that is able to help me see my own rooted, opportunities for growth, right? Where in my
[00:26:00]Aubrey: own soul, do I still need to do the work to be able to accomplish these things that I'm saying that I want to do so. I really encourage you to sit with yourself and, you know, like I used to just sort of do things like I would just pull out a piece of paper. Like I'm gonna do it right now. Um, but treat yourself, get a cup of tea and get a candle or I don't know, Go to a moody space where no one's paying attention to you go hide in a corner and Pull out a piece of paper and just like observe people and see what comes to mind I have no idea whatever the thing is that works for you But allow yourself to truly sit with these Feelings and don't just go for the surface level one. Also, as we're approaching a new year, of course, I thought it was important to share some of the numerology things that I learned about the new year. Um, maybe that'll interest you, maybe it won't, but sometimes again, I can get sort of lost in
[00:27:00] Aubrey: my own mess. And it's nice to have something outside of myself to root myself in. And this, to me, is a way to root myself in these, you know, infinite games in these bigger world experiences that are outside of just like current circumstances of the world that I live in, so 2025 is a nine-year. So we're currently in an eight-year, right? Two plus two plus four equals eight and two plus two plus five equals nine. So that's how numerology of the years work. And I'm not an expert in these by any means. This is like sort of a newer thing that I've been digging into personally. And so I've learned that we're all part of a 10 year cycle. And sort of once I realized that we were in a 10 year cycle, that really felt, uh, a Funny to me. Actually, I guess it's the way to put it because it's like oh, okay This all makes more sense this you know, like joke everyone has about switching
[00:28:00] Aubrey: timelines and being on a new timeline Well, apparently there's some truth to that. So we're going into the ninth year, which means we are coming towards the end end of the cycle that we're currently in, and so the nine year you're supposed to Take time to create more space for things like soul searching, to give permission to take small steps, even if you're not sure where they're supposed to lead you. And so this is what I kind of mean is like when I feel like I go to things that are bigger than me and outside of my small little bubble, I start to find, call them hints or, um, signs, whatever you want to call them. And so I thought it was funny that we were going into this year that was all about like soul searching and small steps and blah, blah, blah, because that's truly what I've been feeling and processing as I go into this new year. So a personal exercise you can do for this is you can ask yourself, over the last
[00:29:00] Aubrey: eight years, what have I given my energy to? What has it accomplished? What have I learned? And then of course, on the flip side, what do I want to prioritize finishing and carrying forward? So again, these are just all adding to this theme of sort of reflection and gratitude and personal investment, et cetera, on just like taking a pause and seeing what's working for you and what isn't, what is worth investing in and what is worth letting go. And this is a theme that has been common for me this whole season. And I don't expect that everyone's going to be in the same place at the same time listening to this show, but I also know not to be egotistical enough to believe that, like, what I'm feeling is something only I could feel. So I would be shocked, personally, if there wasn't some version of this that we're all experiencing this year because it's definitely, again,
[00:30:00] Aubrey: for all sorts of reasons, has been very transitory and has sort of really forced us all to look ourselves in the mirror and say, like, who do we want to be as people or as societies, um, as a planet, et cetera. So I think that these are all just really good questions and good timing to sit with right now.
End of Year Reflections and Announcements
[00:30:35] Aubrey: So before we go, I do want to just offer sort of one final note, um, because it's something that really follows this theme. And I've been really excited to share because it's already feeling like a very celebratory time of year between the holidays at my birthday and New Year's and all the Fun things to come. Um, but we are going towards our midseason break. So this will be our last episode for the year. And then you'll hear us back in your feed in January. Um, but in the meantime, as a way to stay in touch and to continue to celebrate the season, we are going to start
[00:31:00] Aubrey: teasing our brand new logo and colors and mark messaging and all sorts of exciting things. You know, we've been at this for eighteen months now, and there has been a lot of learning curves and journeys, etc. And I'm so grateful for everyone who has stuck through this process and growing pains with us. But it felt time for a growth spurt. So I brought in some Friends and experts who have a creative agency here in the Baltimore area. Their names are Jess and Elisa and their business is called Sunny Side Creative. We're going to link them in the show notes. And I'm so very grateful to them and their patience and their time to be able to just like sit with me and let me just emotionally braindump what I was trying to accomplish in this project and being able to work with me to translate all those feelings into something that actually felt intentional and direct and understandable.
[00:32:00] Aubrey: And so I'm so excited to start making these updates throughout the winter season and to fully launch it come January, but we're going to be dropping some teaser things along the way. So if you're not connected to us, , well, hopefully you are, but if you are not, so you can do through our Instagram GoldenApproachPod, which to be honest with you, I'm just not a social media person despite my age. It's not my favorite. So we do enough to show proof of life there. But if you really want to get all the insider knowledge, I really recommend joining our email list. Now you might say, Oh God, I don't want to sign up for another email. I'm going to put my spam email in there. Please don't. You know, like that exciting feeling when you get like an actual postcard in the mail. That's what I'm trying to make you feel and I try really hard not to spam your email inbox and give you what you really need. So you get emails about when a new episode is coming out, about the cause of choice of the guests that we pair with. And a
[00:33:00] Aubrey: bi-weekly newsletter. So on the weeks where we don't have episodes, you receive a newsletter from me as a way to stay in touch. And it gives more context sort of as to why we're talking about what we're talking about, or maybe it's rooted in a specific event that's happening. Um, it's always rooted in something that's kind of current. And in there, we try to offer something to you that you can use in your real life just like we do in the episodes, but in a mini way. So if you like the episodes, odds are probably pretty high That you'll like the newsletters. Yeah, so all in just huge thanks to Jess and Lisa again for their support. I'm so excited for you to see the finished product, but you have to be in these places to see it. So be sure to check those things out, please and thank you. I hope you all have such a fantastic end of the year. I hope that you as always find some helpful little nugget in this episode that speaks to you and supports you and until next time, bye bye.
Music fades in…
[00:34:00]Aubrey: Thank you for listening to the golden approach podcast, which wouldn't be possible without the support of associate producer and content manager, Emmalyn with audio technology and support provided by barn swallow audio company. If you've liked this episode or any episode prior, be sure to follow so you never miss a new release. We greatly appreciate if you helped others find the show also by leaving a review wherever you're currently listening or directly sharing with friends and family. You can find resources, merch, and more in the show notes and website, goldenapproachpodcast.com. And if you're looking for more content, join our Ko-fi community and follow on Insta @goldenapproachpod.
Until next time, let your hopeful romantic side shine always. Buh bye!
Music fades out…
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