Outgrowing Toxic Industry Habits
Episode 003:
Jacqueline Mearman
Pastry Chef, Owner of Kitsch Café [Baltimore, MD]
Chef Jackie has lived many industry lives; from being a rum distiller to a corporate pastry chef and now owner of a breakfast-sandwich shop, while chartering boats, she is a true “Jill of all trades.” However, like many of us, was taught toxic leadership habits along the way that as a business owner herself, now has had to face to unravel. We discuss the importance of self-reflection, doing the hard work to change for the better, and putting it into practice.
EPISODE OUTLINE
[00:00:00] Episode Introduction
[00:03:36] Chef Jackie’s background
[00:09:37] Her self-reflection journey
[00:45:00] Being community driven
[00:55:40] Rapid fire questions
[00:59:43] Closing
RESOURCES
Follow Kitsch and Kitsch Bus on Instagram
Kitsch website
Support the show and Planned Parenthood* by purchasing this episodes special edition t-shirt and tote!
*a portion of all proceeds from these items will be donated to Planned Parenthood
TRANSCRIPT
Episode Introduction
[00:00:00] Aubrey: Welcome to the Golden Approach podcast, a show where service professionals can work together to figure out hospitality beyond our old habits. I'm really grateful you're here. I'm also excited to introduce to you my first interview guest ever, Chef Jacqueline Mearman. Chef Jackie has lived many lives. She's been a rum distiller, worked in an ice cream shop, corporate pastry chef. And now owner of a breakfast sandwich shop called Kitsch here in Baltimore. She also charters boats with her partner and is even expanding just three years into her business with Kitsch Bus. That's hopefully going to open this year, fingers crossed. So, she is the Jill of all trades if you ever met one. And... Like many of us, though, she was taught a lot of toxic leadership habits along the way that as a business owner herself, she's been facing head on to unravel. We discussed the importance of self-reflection, doing the hard work to change for the better and for your team and
[00:01:00] Aubrey: putting it into practice as a small business owner. I really appreciate how Chef Jackie is all about just trying to be a decent kind, honest, human. And at the end of the day, that is basically what we should all strive for. She stays flexible and just does what needs to be done to do good and do with intention. Honestly, it comes down to that. I do want to add one disclaimer before we get into the full episode though, that podcast was going to be out last year. And to be very honest with everyone listening that this was recorded last year. So if there are some references that seem very on the nose for the pandemic, that's because they are, but what we talked about is more true than ever. I also want to note too that this episode is the first because it honestly was not only the first one I recorded, but really was the most impactful on me starting my own kind of
[00:02:00] Aubrey: self-reflection and growth journey. A lot of the things that we talked about in this episode allowed me to really think about things differently and made a lot of impact on how I healed and grew over the last year. So I definitely hope that you'll find some nugget that works for you, just as it did for me. And that's probably why a lot of the things that you hear in the first two episodes really reflect what you're going to hear in this episode, because it was just so on the nose and I feel like Jackie was just really helping me see what was possible. Like she was just a few months ahead of me in her self-reflection and healing journey, and it really kind of gave me some insight on what could be like the next steps I could try or I could take. And that's what I'm hoping you might gather from it too.
[00:03:00] Aubrey: And we have a little bonus for you this episode. So make sure to stay all the way to the very end to hear some rapid-fire questions I asked Chef Jackie. So I'm not going to delay this anymore. I'm excited to get us into this episode. So without further ado, let's get to know Chef Jacqueline Mearman. So I know you obviously, but we're going to pretend like no one knows you. So as we go back, can you just start by telling us who you are? Where are you from? Really anything that you want to share about your journey to being a chef?
Chef Jackie’s Background
[00:03:36] Jacqueline: You know, my journey was pretty, it's been wild. It has been wild. I've worked in like every corner of the food industry, restaurant industry. I've worked as a distiller. I was, uh, did my internship from the CIA at Disney World. There's been no stretch of the imagination that I haven't filled some kind of role in food industry. I, my first kind of inspiration, I think what brought me into it was working in an ice cream store and making ice cream and ice cream cakes and going to a tech school, just like completely randomly choosing baking and pastry and, and absolutely falling in love.
[00:04:16] Aubrey: Awesome. That's really cool. So distiller, you actually did that like as a job for a while, you were like making the beer or…
[00:04:21] Jacqueline: I was making rum. Yeah.
[00:04:26] Aubrey: I guess that's a brewer. Pardon me.
[00:04:28] Jacqueline: No, you're good. It's okay. It's, it's definitely like distillation and the art of spirits is something that's still, I think a pretty big mystery to a lot of people. But yeah, when I was 23, I was a rum distiller out in Crested Butte, Colorado for Montanya Rum Distillers there. They're amazing. They're actually an international company now. And it was, it was wild. I just asked a lot of questions and they offered me the Position with training, obviously, yeah…
[00:04:58] Aubrey: I'm just really curious because I don't think I even knew this about you to be honest. Did you feel like it has applied pretty smoothly to like everything else you've done as a chef? Are the skills similar or is it just like its own?
[00:05:14] Jacqueline: It's literally liquid bread, so you just have, I had 400 gallon vats of ferment that I was responsible for nurturing through the first five days of their lives. And then after those five days, we would transport everything into an Alembic head, copper still, and you just boil it until you collect all of the good alcohol off of it, which is all just the paper. It's, it's, it's insane. It's, it's science. And everyone always says. Pastry is a science, so baking is a science, and I, I don't really agree with that, but distilling was a science.
[00:05:49] Aubrey: Yeah, oh, I am sure. That is really, really cool. So have you had a favorite job then so far since you've now had these many lives?
[00:05:57] Jacqueline: You know, it's funny because I've really kind of come full circle. Like my favorite part about working in the ice cream store was like knowing people that came in and getting to like help people like face to face ‘cause when you get further and further into the corporate structure of kitchens for chefs, we also get like further away from the guests a little bit. Yeah. So I don't know, it was kind of like. And now I'm back to doing that. I'm just helping people. So I don't know. I really loved making ice cream as crazy as that is. That was my first job. I loved it.
[00:06:32] Aubrey: I don't think that's crazy at all. I've had other friends where they've just ended up. for a while working in an ice cream shop or something like that. And I think it's also one of their favorite jobs. So I think ice cream just makes people happy, whether you're making it or eating it or whatever. But so that kind of takes us to where you are now, right? So you're at Kitsch and you get to interact with the guests. So. That's great. But like, what made you come up with this specific concept? You're like, I'm going to have a breakfast cafe. Versus doing an ice cream shop or one of the many lives that you have already lived?
[00:07:10] Jacqueline: Yeah, ice cream shop would have been a good idea. That's all right. I, uh, yeah, no, I won't. I, I mean, I really can't lie. I just knew I wanted to do something. I knew I wanted to interact with people again, and I wanted to find a niche that was like kind of not filled in Baltimore. So like, obviously like the Charmery is in Hampden like I cannot compete with them. They're amazing. Right. Taharka Brothers is not far away. I don't know. So ice cream, I actually immediately eliminated. It was on my mind. But it didn't make any sense. Then I like got a space and once I had the space it was kind of like, what equipment can I have in here? And okay, I can only have induction burners and flat tops that are rated as greaseless cooking, so I can't fry anything. I can't do like burgers. And I don't know, it just kind of came down to it. I was like, well, if I have a good non-stick pad, I can flip an
[00:08:00] Jacqueline: egg in it without any grease. So that's greaseless. So that's, it just happened. I don't know, like we saw this, I saw the space and I kind of just said, Your breakfast breakfast makes sense and it's a pandemic. I don't know like that's that was a huge Push into what we were what I was kind of scheming was It's a pandemic. What do people need? They need to like get up in the morning and like start the day and feel positive.
[00:08:34] Aubrey: Yeah. I love that. I, I am curious how, well, I guess you kind of just explained it, but do you feel like if you had done this at a different time, let's say you still found the space you were living where you were living, right? You were in the mindset. Do you feel like the journey kind of was COVID did affect it, right? Right. But. It wasn't the dictator, or do you feel like COVID, in a lot of ways, kind of was the dictator of the experience of starting this?
[00:09:00] Jacqueline: COVID was kind of the, for me, I think it was more like it was the straw that broke the camel's back. That's probably good advice for us all. I mean, I just spent so many years caring and caring way, just caring way too much. I mean, like obsessing over things. And I think that's like the brainwashing is still being like broken. So anyway, with COVID, I mean, I, I kind of saw all this coming down the pipeline in a corporate chef position and was just like, All right. This is, we have officially hit 11. I'm out of here. Like, I can't, I just, I can't do this anymore. This is insane.
Her self-reflection journey
[00:09:37] Aubrey: I do want to go back to your previous point though, because I agree with everything you're saying, and I feel like all of us lived that experience. And I don't want to make everything too much about COVID because I know everyone to an extent is tired of talking about it, but that point about realizing that we, Want to reconnect to ourselves and the brainwashing I think is just an important thing to touch on so
[00:10:00] Aubrey: Are you willing to speak to any part of that journey or things that you have done to kind of help yourself transition? Since we're all kind of going through that version for ourselves
[00:10:12] Jacqueline: I don't know, for me, it's identifying the things that I was doing on a daily basis to cope with being overworked, underfed, overtired, you know, there was things that I was doing on a daily basis to cope with what I was dealing with every day, and then there were things that I wasn't doing. That I was sacrificing because I needed to be at work and, or be focusing on work. And I think right now we're seeing all this push of like, quit your job and go like, do what you want and like live free and stuff. I'm not saying that, like, try it. I'm just trying to respect the nine to five grind, like, I want to know more like what it's like to like go to work and clock in and leave and clock out and not bring
[00:11:00] Jacqueline: it home with me and be able to like come home and want to go to a Pilates class, not even like force myself to go, but want to go and want to participate in like a social event on a school night, you know, like, yeah, it's just one of those things that it was like, my only social interactions really was if I was going out with people from work after work. Which was just toxically bringing work with me after I left.
[00:11:26] Aubrey: Yeah, cause we all just stand there with our drinks and continue to talk about all the
[00:11:29] Jacqueline: That's all you have to talk
[00:11:31] Aubrey: That is, it is all you have to talk about.
[00:11:33] Jacqueline: That's your commiseration, right? So, for me, I've been trying to focus a lot more on paying attention to like The things that I need every day to make me happier and, and feel fulfilled. Right. And one of those is like cooking a meal for myself.
[00:11:52] Aubrey: I love that. Okay. So what has been like the highest moment? Cause you know, there's all this stuff
[00:12:00] Aubrey: to kind of get bogged down about with opening a property. Or a restaurant, I guess I should say. And then also with the pandemic and then also having come out of a very involved and at times exhausting job. So I'm sure you weren't even like super well rested. So what has been a high moment that's kind of gotten you through and kept you motivated and inspired?
[00:12:23] Jacqueline: My absolute highest peak, and it was the highest peak for me as a business owner was when January 6th happened. We had it streaming on my computer and over our speaker, we turned off music and we were still taking orders, but most people were at home watching what was happening and it just gave me chills thinking about it. But my, I think the reason for me that it meant so much was I, that day realized that I was in control of letting my employees be. Aware of what was going on in the world and not just being like you aren't here to work and you are on the clock You know what? I mean? And I do right
[00:13:00] Jacqueline: and this insane thing was going on and they wanted to know what was going on So we just turned it we turned it on and people were coming into the shop from the building because we're in a huge apartment Building and people were even coming in just like are you guys seeing this like regulars were coming in like making sure that we were up to date on what was going on and I don't know why it was just such a high profile point for me, because it just made me realize that I was like, with the right people, you know, and that we all wanted better for ourselves. And I don't know, it was just, it was a proud moment.
[00:13:41] Aubrey: I am so glad actually that that, cause of all the things that I thought you would describe. Obviously, I didn't guess that and I think that's so special because I was working for a boss one time during the Kavanaugh hearings when he was nominated and I remember having it on my phone and
[00:14:00] Aubrey: like, we were allowed to listen to music while we worked and I was, I had it playing, I was listening to it and my boss realized and she was like, you can't be watching I stuff on your phone while you're working. And I was like, look, I get it. I'm not really, like, watching it. I'm just trying to listen to it. Like, this is a huge deal. Like, this is really impactful for me. And I just remember her being so upset. Just the only focus was, you are breaking the rules. Like, you have your phone out. You shouldn't be watching this. And being like, this is a this is a moment, like, this is a moment that all of us should be paying attention to, and you should want to encourage your staff to feel comfortable and all these things, so I wish I'd had a boss like you, that had been more encouraging of those situations.
[00:14:45] Jacqueline: Yeah, I mean, we definitely... We try to stay, we try to stay educated. I think that's been, that's been kind of cool. Like I have a very, you know, diverse staff. I feel like it's getting like old saying that like my, oh, my staff
[00:15:00] Jacqueline: is so diverse. Like by now you damn well better have a diverse staff. But I just like that our staff is right. Like our staff is just very open to the world. And I think that shows in the way that we, we have a little crew book that we can leave notes. It's for each other and whatever, you know, and it has to be positive. There's obviously rules to the book or whatever, but somebody wrote in there, like, Hey, it's a lot nicer when everybody greets the guests, which is what most of us do. Right. But they were just kind of reminding everybody, like, even if you're having a bad day, sometimes it will cheer you up to just like talk to all these like strangers all day. Unfortunately, they're not strangers because most of the people that come into the shop, come in. Every day like I can't get rid of them. They love us. But I have to be honest.
[00:15:44] Aubrey: My only complaint of your entire endeavor is that it's not closer to my house. That is literally the only thing I'm upset about every time is that I have to order it to be delivered to my home and that I can't also just walk downstairs and acquire these delicious sandwiches.
[00:16:01] Jacqueline: I have an endless stream of coffee. It's great. Yeah.
[00:16:05] Aubrey: So if you, if you ever open a second, you need to go a little more downtown.
[00:16:10] Jacqueline: It's going all the way to Annapolis. You know, that's,
[00:16:14] Aubrey: I cannot wait. I cannot wait. Seriously. My husband and I constantly wake up and we're just like, today's a kitsch day.
[00:16:29] Jacqueline: You are not the first person to say that, like, you are in bed talking about our sandwiches.
[00:16:32] Aubrey: It's no lie.
[00:16:33] Jacqueline: By any stretch. Like, that's, it's crazy how many people come in and they're like, I woke up this morning and I said to my wife, we're getting sandwiches today. I'm like, okay, here they are. Have a nice day.
[00:16:41] Aubrey: Oh gosh, it is. We're going to start the day with kitsch and there's nothing that can go wrong that day. But I'm curious, what's kind of been a low moment you've had to overcome? Because with all good comes. Bad usually. So what's something that you've had to overcome?
[00:16:59] Jacqueline: I would love to say like one of the, I have no idea, dozens of times that my bank account has been over drafted. I'd love to say that that's my low point, but at this point I like. Honestly, I've gotten to the point where I'm just like, money will come, I guess, maybe, you know, it's just, I used to like really stress out. Like I'd be like posting payroll and be like, okay, after I post payroll, there's going to be like 18 in my bank account. That's fine. Right. That's fine. But I, you know, it kind of got to a point that I was just like, the money is the least of my worries. Like 100% of what money is the least of my worries. My low point. Was being about nine months in probably, and that's about halfway point between where I am now and when we open about nine months in was when it really hit me because you have to understand that I opened this place and I wanted to keep a lot of the like quality standards that
[00:18:00] Jacqueline: I learned in fine dining alive, right? Yeah. I started realizing that, like, 90% of that, those quality things that we were doing was, like, Just OCD, toxic, like mental traits that chefs were teaching us. Now, we do still cut tape because now this is not like, we are not, this is not like an insane asylum. Like we still cut the blue tape when we label things and I, and, but dumb, dumb things like I have never. As a boss, in any place, I have never bought Sharpies for my employees. Which, at Four Seasons, I could have literally just been ordering them on my, like, Office Depot. I don't know why I was just like, buy your own Sharpies everywhere I've been. I've always been like buying your own Sharpies. And now with, I have so much less money and like so much more like comfort in my life, but I still have
[00:19:00] Jacqueline: Sharpies on subscribe and save for my employees because I just want them to have the tools that they need. I don't know. Like when I, something's broken, like I genuinely feel bad that it's broken. Like we had our. Flattop issue. And I felt terrible that the staff was encumbered at all in their performance because of a faulty flattop. We got a new one and it's, and well, actually we bought the parts for the old one and bought a new one to temporary fill its place because that's how like, I can't do it. I want my staff to come in. So yeah, my low point was about nine months in. And realizing that I thought that I was better, but I wasn't, and I was nitpicking employee performance and I was stressing out over numbers and I was constantly like all of the same little tasks that I was doing in previous jobs that was making me crazy. I realized I was still doing, and that was kind of when I was like, all right, I got to dive deeper. I got to get further away from, yeah, I don't know. There's a, there's just a balance.
[00:20:03] Aubrey: Yeah, I love that. I agree. It is. weird when you get out of, I don't want to speak like super poorly, I don't mean it like that, like everything in the restaurant industry is toxic, but it is interesting when you get that kind of breath of fresh air and a little bit of distance, how you look back and you reflect on, was that absolutely? Necessary, like I teach now and so I'm always trying to work on that balance of like, what do I need to give them to set them up so that way they can get a job and they'll be successful, but also moving that wheel a little bit further into being more progressive and more reasonable in our expectations of people and all that stuff, which I'm glad as a business owner, you get to have.
[00:20:48] Jacqueline: Sure, and like, you know, this is. Perfectly. But like, if you've ever worked on a pastry station where maybe you are expected to completely break it down every night and then
[00:21:00] Jacqueline: completely reset it up every morning, exactly. Perfectly the same way every single day. And then you get away from that and you're just like. What the hell am I doing? Why am I wasting an hour every day doing this? Like this is energy I could be spending on so many other things. I don't know. So definitely that's for me, just the realizing how much in my career that I did because somebody was like, you have to do it this way. It's not that serious.
[00:21:26] Aubrey: Exactly. I love how all your answers have like, just so well translated into my next question. So for that, thank you so much for making my job so easy. Who and what inspired your management style? And I think you've kind of touched on this a bit, but you know, has COVID in a way, really changed that and then this can be good or bad, you know, it could be you had a chef that had a really negative experience with I'm not saying name names or whatever, but you can as much as you feel comfortable. But anyway, like, whether it was negative or positive, what do you think has been the most influential for you?
[00:22:02] Jacqueline: So, wild enough. I think the person that I've learned the most from is my first baking instructor, right? So he was my baking instructor for the tech center that I went to in high school. And when I was in school, he was pretty intense. I mean, like he was that like loud mouth chef that was kind of like rock with us. Like he didn't curse at us because it was a high school, but he was just. And his expectations were high and he was the kind of guy that like, when I was practicing, when I was practicing cake decorating, he would come by and just like run his finger through it and be like, do it again, do it again. And there was other students that he would do that too. Sure. But now what I started realizing is like over the years, I would go back and spend time with him and like do demos for his class and I don't know, like just help wherever I could. And I would say to him, I just
[00:23:00] Jacqueline: be like, Pete, you are so soft now, like what happened to you? Like you were, you're so soft. And he kind of pointed out to me, he was like, I was tough on you. I wasn't tough on everyone. Like he knew what I wanted and he knew that I wanted to push myself. He knew I wanted to compete. He knew that I wanted to get better. So he pushed me. Right. But when I would watch his management style with the other kids that were kind of just there to fill their credits for high school, you know, he was. It's much more lax, right? And today for me, I have a PhD student who sometimes calls out because she is just overwhelmed and that's fine. Could you ever imagine me ever saying that at any job I've ever had before? It's fine. She needs a day off. I love that. That's fine. I intentionally schedule myself for like 25 hours a week so that
[00:24:00] Jacqueline: I have places where I can pick up extra stuff if people have like life that happens to them. I don't know if I don't work all those hours. I always have time to work in my office. I don't know for me. No, I, I kind of gotten to this point where I'm just like, My employees are, you know, younger, they're not trying to go into like some huge career in the industry. Now, I do have one employee that does want to launch herself into a career in the industry, and I am a little bit harder on her, and my expectations are harder on her.
[00:24:32] Aubrey: But that's what's coming.
[00:24:34] Jacqueline: That's what she's told me she wanted. And you know, I have another woman that wants to open her own business. So the kind of the way I manage her is. It's more catered to someone that wants to own their own business eventually. Like, so I don't know, it's kind of recognizing that, you know, before I would have these pastry teams and I would be like, you are here and you are in pastry. So you are, you are team pastry and we're going to work hard for 12 hours and it's going to be great.
[00:25:00] Jacqueline: And now looking back, I'm like, man, I actually probably had a lot of employees that had like much more valuable things going on in their free time that they were just coming for the paycheck. And I'm like, And that was okay. It should have been okay. It should have been okay.
[00:25:14] Aubrey: I, look, I am also, you know, you only know what you know when you know it, and we're taught to be that way, you know, and you and I are part of that kind of like, not to sound cheesy, but that generation of chefs that is really trying to Break the cycle. And it's not to say that we need to let go of everything and start from scratch, you know, but just that a little bit more in tune and realization that like, this is not life. Like this still is a job we're working for a paycheck. We can care about it. We can care about the people and be passionate, but we're still humans with other things in our lives.
[00:25:52] Jacqueline: The food industry right now is like a very old, beautiful Victorian home. That is
[00:26:00] Jacqueline: very beautiful, but it's no longer structurally sound. So like, you're not going to tear the whole thing down, but you might gut the whole inside and make it new again. And that's, I think where we have to kind of, right, like we can't, we can't burn it to the ground. Like there's still a lot of good that like I've gotten out of my career. Like I would change nothing about the last 17 years. Not one thing. It wasn't easy, but from what I like. I know now, you know, I, you know, when you know it, that's exactly like I, now that I'm older, I'm just kind of like, I want things to be better for the people below me. And, you know, it's kind of like what we talked about before we got on, we're kind of chatting about ACF and, and I, I love ACF. I think that's an incredible organization that helps network people. Now, unfortunately the internet exists. I mean, I just joined Discord so that I could be on Majordomo Media's Discord
[00:27:00] Jacqueline: page because it's David Chang's like crew of, I don't even know what to call them. They're just awesome. They're just great people and they're just on there talking about food and industry and equipment and like what's trending and good snacks, you know, and we have this ability now to like the conversations and the, the, the speed at which trends happen. It's incredible. There's so much possibility for our industry that it's almost like the faster we put all this stuff behind us and move forward and just make it a pleasant place to live, the more that we can start focusing on like the change in equity, like how do we, how do we bring equity in the kitchens and how do human resource teams be able to support their restaurants to be able to have this kind of engagement? I don't know. It's just like the possibilities are so endless, you know.
[00:27:50] Aubrey: I could not agree more. Like you said, the conversations were able to have with such a wide range of people that we would have never had access to. It is what we are going to need to be able to move. everything forward as a cohesive group with cohesive standards.
[00:28:08] Jacqueline: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. It's a really cool time to be alive in the industry.
[00:28:13] Aubrey: I do agree with that.
[00:28:15] Jacqueline: It's painful. It's a little sticky.
[00:28:19] Aubrey: Yes. Yes. But just to go just a little bit farther, if you don't mind, I really love and respect how you are so focused on the, um, Where I go, we go. It's not just my success. It's our success kind of thing, but you still obviously are very much in control. I would love if you were willing to tell us like any inspiration to how you became like that. I know you talked about your management style, but you know, how you find that balance as a business owner and that there are boundaries that need to be had. But at the same time, bringing your staff in,
[00:29:00] Aubrey: whether they're going to be professional in restaurant or they're, you know, just there for the summer, like how you bring them in to make them better and super involved in the process?
[00:29:11] Jacqueline: Well, the one thing I will admit is that, like, my staff will100% tell you that they probably got thrown into the fire, like, day one.
[00:29:18] Aubrey: Okay, I mean, you did just open a brick and mortar, so if that didn't happen, I would be truly amazed.
[00:29:24] Jacqueline: Because I want to back it up right now, that if any of us here, it's like, I am not, by any means, I don't have this down to a science, I don't have the answer. But, I find the staff that I, I, I trust, and that I, care about and that I know want like longevity with us. And those are the ones that I really rely on to kind of like trickle down information now for the first time ever. We have actually a planned staff training session that's going to be like 90 minutes, but I want it to be like, this is what I think we should be doing now. Tell me what you
[00:30:00] Jacqueline: guys think of these ideas. Like I want it to be very town hall and I want to be able to all agree because it surprises me anyway. Sometimes I, I come into the shop and I'm like making sandwiches for someone. And the person at the counter is a stranger to me, but then whoever's like working coffee is like. ‘Oh, yeah, that's Joan. She's been coming in every Tuesday and getting a kitsch with with Dijonaise and tomato and then she sits in the hallway and eats it and comes in and thanks us and leaves every day’. I'm like, they know more sometimes they know more than I do. I mean, one of my employees suggested that we keep a list of our regulars birthdays and our regulars dog names so that we could just like
[00:30:41] Aubrey: That’s so smart!
[00:30:43] Jacqueline: more customize their experience. So like, I kind of obviously stole a lot of stuff from Four Seasons because they have just like the best guest engagement that has ever existed and Disney World obviously, again great engagement But when I
[00:31:00] Jacqueline: started kind of like presenting that those concepts to the staff They've just like taken it and run with it and we all talk about like what works what doesn't work how to get better how to excel and we're gonna have a very honest conversation about numbers and how they can make more money because We're all showing up to make money. That's the point. Like we're not doing it as a charity. So they, we're going to have a conversation about sales, which we do all the time. The staff knows what sales should be, and they know how to make tips, and they know how to hustle. It's like they get $15 an hour base, but like last Sunday we made $7.35 an hour in tips. So the staff was walking out with over $22 an hour. That's great. So anyway, that's, for me, it's been like, yeah, it is the more of like, come with me, you know, please come with me. And not so much the like, lead by being a
[00:32:00] Jacqueline: dictator. Now, I, 100%, and if... You are a leader and can't admit that you do this, then you are wrong. But there is something about any leadership position that it. It's like a human necessity to always have that one person that you're kind of like digging into for some reason. Now, I have found the answer for that. It is called CBD.
[00:32:26] Aubrey: Okay. Say more, say more.
[00:32:29] Jacqueline: I've started realizing, I mean, like sometimes you'll see that an employee does one thing wrong, right? And that kind of like cracks open the can a little bit, right? And then you start, you're just watching like every move that they're making and honestly, you're wasting your time because then you're putting that person on eggshells, they're freaking out, then they're messing up more because they're freaking out and it just falls apart. So like at the end of the day, like every human being wants to have like positive feedback. And if you're just constantly like banging on somebody, it ruins them. And in all seriousness, I mean, I, yeah, I mean, I realized what my brain was doing all the time and I'd, I'd have been on a pretty strict CBD regimen for like two or three months now. And it, I mean, honestly, maybe it's completely psychosomatic and I don't care.
[00:33:17] Aubrey: Hey, I don't care either way, you know, when you find what works for you, as long as it's not like physically, emotionally or mentally hurting yourself or somebody else then I say you do you.
[00:33:30] Jacqueline: This calms me down, man. And at the end of the day, it gives me like, it makes me feel clear. Now that also could be because the last two months I've been paying more attention to like eating correctly, and finding time to work out, and drinking water, and like doing things for my body to feel better. So, you know what I mean? Like it's a big combination of things, but I think just the recognition of being like, why do I think that this employee is so flawed and then backing up and being like, this employee is not flawed. I am driving this employee into insanity.
[00:34:01] Aubrey: I have so much respect for that. But then as you were saying, like kind of the, the turning the reflection back on me, it's not just what is my team doing wrong, but have I put them in the right position that they can flourish? Have I stopped long enough to figure out why they're struggling? Like, I think that's so amazing. And I wish more owners were like that. And no wonder your, your team sticks around because that is unfortunately rare still.
[00:34:28] Jacqueline: I mean, and I will say like, it doesn't, it doesn't work for every individual. Like I have definitely had individuals that I've left swiftly or just in not a great place, or you know, maybe I overthink it. Maybe I think that they're leaving because they're not happy, I don't know, but I just it's not going to work for everybody some people I think need like really rigid structure and some people can be a little bit more. I don't know I think it does take a certain kind of personality for us. Like if, if you're
[00:35:00] Jacqueline: not like sunshine and rainbows, or at least can turn on sunshine and rainbows a little bit, then it's, it would not be, Kitsch would not be a fun place to be. If you like to be sad,
[00:35:12] Aubrey: That’s not how you start your day anyway, like to an extent,
[00:35:22] Jacqueline: People go to band camp to have fun. And some people go to band camp to like call mom and dad every day and be miserable. And like, we all wake up and make that decision every day.
[00:35:26] Aubrey: Right.
[00:35:27] Jacqueline: So. It's just, I don't know, my band director used to say that, and that's, I mean, that's just what it is. Like, it's, it's, he also used to say, if you're going to march through mashed potatoes, you have to make sure you're wearing your gravy boots, which stands here, right? Like, if you know that your job is to, like, people walk in, and you're like, Hi, welcome, and happy Monday, you know, like, If you don't want to do that every day, like it's probably a terrible job.
[00:35:54] Aubrey: You still definitely have to find your people for sure. I don't care what you do, but you're right.
[00:35:57] Jacqueline: Yeah. You do have to find your people and you have to, I think more than anything, like with us, I think we have eight employees right now and like they all get along, you know what I mean?
[00:36:00] Aubrey: Beautiful
[00:36:01] Jacqueline: And like, there is no smack talk. I'm probably the only one that like says anything negative. About anyone. And I need to cut that shit out because I've learned it from past industry experiences and I catch myself and I come home and I'm just like, why did I say that so and so didn't like clean the bathroom good? Like, what is wrong with me? I don't know. Like that's a bad boss move. Like I shouldn't do that, but I don't know. You just kind of remind yourself that you're a human being and you're not perfect though.
[00:36:40] Aubrey: Yes. I think it's almost even more powerful though for staff to see. A manager that is open to change and self reflection and all of those things, you know, like,
[00:36:52] Jacqueline: And you have to admit it. I mean, yeah, yeah, you have to admit it. And like, but then of course, there's the balance, like you have to have a
[00:37:00] Jacqueline: spine and you have to be the boss, but you have to be able to also say I messed up, you know, and that it happens. We all do it. We all mess up. I mean, I don't know, but it's, it's the silly things for me. It's like just checking in with employees to be like, Hey, are you getting enough hours? Are you getting cut too often? Like sometimes it just forget to check in with people.
[00:38:04] Aubrey: I couldn’t agree more. So we've talked about your staff a lot and your experience. But I'm also curious from the customer standpoint, one of the things I've really noticed when you have to close early or you kind of close last minute, I've seen like you post on social media, like guys, it's just, it's not happening. No breakfast sandwiches for you all. Sorry, we'll be back on this day. You know, I appreciate that you do that because it seems from my perspective, you're putting your staff first, you're putting yourself first and you're trying to do everything the right way. But have you felt like the community has received that well, and that they're rallying behind you. Do you feel like, now granted there's always going to be good and bad, I understand. But you know, as a majority, do you feel like people have not quite gotten there yet where they're still like, no, I just need everything when I want it. And I don't understand why you would do such a thing. How, how does it feel like from the community standpoint?
[00:39:02] Jacqueline: I can think of one time that I did close. Because it wasn't even like a staffing it. Well, it was because I had to leave and it was just me and another person working. And I literally said to the person, I was like, I will pay for the rest of the day, but we are going home because my nephew was being born and my sister wanted me in the birthing room. Like she wanted me to be there. And I, and I was, and I would have never been able to do that in any other position. And it's kind of like, it's bad, but I've kind of gotten to a point where I'm like, If you don't understand why we do some of these things that we do, then you'll get there. You know what I mean? Like we can be patient with you. It's fine. Cause we're still going to love you anyway, but thank God we have. So we've really recovered from staffing shortage. I think a lot of places have, right? So I haven't had to do that in a while now. I have had days where like the water gets turned off because this building is just was built in the fifties, right? So
[00:40:00] Jacqueline: sometimes they have to turn off all the water. Now I could stay open. I could stay open and I could continue serving guests, but I'd have to do it knowing that I'm not washing my hands and I'm not washing dishes until water comes back. And I'm probably serving water that's not potable because any water that is still coming out of the tap is probably kind of messed up. Right? And so it's like, I don't know. I have to look at it from a safety standpoint. I have run into more times that we have to close. It's because of a building malfunction than anything else, but I don't know, like, yeah, at first it really bothered me when I had to do that. And I was like, well, people are going to think we're not consistent. And then I kind of, like, thought about it and it was just like. It's just not worth the strain and it's not like it's not worth trying to serve people without clean dishes. Like it seems dishonest to be like, here's a sandwich with my unwashed hands. Like I don't know It's just it's I don't know. It's
[00:41:00] Jacqueline: crazy because I mean, and this is like don't tell the health department but like we don't generally, we wear gloves. We're like a, we wash our hands place because gloves are terrible for the environment. And I don't know if you've ever like worn gloves when you're making sandwiches, but it's disgusting because everything gets greasy. Wear gloves while you're working for like a four hour shift in a kitchen and just like everything is greasy, every handle, every, every bottle, like everything. We're a hand washing place.
[00:41:30] Aubrey: I am with you. I actually think that they make places dirtier when people rely on...
[00:41:37] Jacqueline: People ask us, they ask us, I've gotten DMS where they're like, I've noticed that you guys don't wear gloves. And I honestly, God tell them, I'm like, I'm sorry. We just, the environment, A. the environment and B. if my employees are wearing gloves, they're just tracking shit everywhere. So yeah, I don't know. Gloves, gloves was like a hard left turn from where we were. It's just another
[00:42:00] Jacqueline: soapbox that I get onto often. I'm sorry.
[00:42:02] Aubrey: No, I, I am totally with you.
[00:42:05] Jacqueline: I mean, if you put dirty hands inside of gloves, it's like, anyway, sorry. Yeah, you're right.
[00:42:15] Aubrey: I'm going to get on a whole tangent about this. Because I know… But bringing it back, so you have some called out, you know, of certain things, but…
[00:42:38] Jacqueline: We get a little call out from the community.
[00:42:42] Aubrey: They seem, once you've explained something to them, then they seem more…
[00:42:46] Jacqueline: I think my whole point here is, I think where I was trying to go, and then I just, no, it's me. Trust me. I know it's me. I have to reel myself in all the time on stuff like this. It's the transparency, right?
[00:43:00] Jacqueline: Yes. You just, all you have to do is, is not lie. Like, so whether it's, you know, closing early, if you're closing early, or if you don't have water, like, please don't serve people if you don't have water, that's disgusting, you know, like, it's just, I don't know, because it makes me wonder, like, there's gotta be other places that, like, don't close, right, when there's no water. It has to happen.
[00:43:24] Aubrey: I don't know that I have worked places that have, I won't say, but you know…
[00:43:30] Jacqueline: I know me too, but like, and that's where I'm like, I have to believe that's what happens because I don't know, it'd be like, if your fridge was broken and you had no refrigeration, but they were like, no, we're still going to open. Why would you still open? You know what I mean? I don't know. So it's just for me, it's like using our common sense and more than anything, like, as far as like staff shortages, like, yes, if I have multiple staff that are out sick, or, or, we just don't have the coverage that day. I would rather cut my
[00:44:00] Jacqueline: losses and pay the employees that were supposed to work than have those employees come in and have a horrible, horrible shift. I mean, but that's also like, I don't know, like I wouldn't, I wouldn't leave like one person there all I would work open to close by myself and that would be fine, but I don't know. I just, if anyone from the community approach it, I know I just, I used to, I am crazy. Cause I used to care and no one's really asked me to like explain this, but it's weird. I just, I just don't anymore. Circumstances have changed.
[00:44:31] Aubrey: Yeah. These are the steps that need to be taken. These are the kind of the baselines that need to be retaught to the public, right? That just sometimes you can't always have everything on demand. And if you want quality and consistency, then there's some sacrifice.
[00:44:50] Jacqueline: We can't get bacon. We can't get bacon. I'm not going to get a, I'm not going to get a worse bacon and serve you hospital bacon because I can't get the product that I normally get.
Being community driven
[00:45:00] Aubrey: All right. So kind of my last part of Kitsch that I wanted to touch on. Before we run out of time is I have so I just have a lot of respect for your approach to business and I really appreciate how you give back so much. So not only do you give back to your staff in the way that you treat them and you pay them fairly and that you try to source good food. But you have your GiveWitch program. And if I remember correctly, you also donate proceeds.
[00:45:28] Jacqueline: We do try to. So the GiveWitches, it's a $5 sandwich that I think on online ordering, it says like turns into a meal for someone in need. So we have get a lot of them. And we kind of in the beginning. We're like, this is great. Cause if people like come in and need a sandwich, cause it was pandemic and stuff, then we can like give them the sandwich. Now it turns out not a lot of people just like walk in or like one free sandwich, please.
[00:46:00] Jacqueline: We have a few people that are in the community that need assistance, which we provide. But for the most part, at the end of the month, I add up all of the givewhiches that were bought throughout the month and I generally try to like match it or build upon the donation with Kitsch's money, and then obviously we donate it. We try to give back 1%, right? The thing is, 1% of zero profit or proceeds is... It's, it's still zero. So we're, I mean, cause we just aren't, there's not a profit to be turned. I'm still paying down debt from getting in the position that we're in. So for me, that's turned into a commitment of time. So making sure that I'm committing time back to the community, which I do through a couple different programs, and with the givewhich program, making sure that we're padding that out.
[00:47:00] Jacqueline: So if we have $250 worth of give, givewhiches is adding another $250 to that, to double the donation and make sure that we're staying involved in the community. We recently, this was kind of fun. Instead of turning givewhiches into meals, we created, I think like 50 bags of like toiletries, like toothbrushes and socks and toothpaste and like soap, also, you know, toiletries and. The idea was, you know, we all just split them up and put them in our cars. And when you like see people at stoplights, you can give them a toiletry bag, which like the response from people when you're like, I don't have any money, but I do have toiletries. Like, turns out they need them, you know? And that's, it was like when it was the coldest people need fresh socks, it's wet outside, so I don't know, like just. For us, it's like we can't, oh god, I can't wait. Like last year we had a great year. I would love to have seen that full 1% of our total sales go back into the community. Will it happen by next year?
[00:48:00] Jacqueline: 100% it's going to happen by next year. But for now, like I'm just trying to do the best that we can to make sure that we're staying involved with time with as much financial money that we can put into it. And just with being there for the community. I'm constantly looking for ways to get engaged with surrounding things. I don't know, but it's like, you know, add it to the list of things to do. And that's what you just have to keep pushing and pushing and pushing yourself to check off little boxes here and there to make sure that you're making a positive impact. I don't know.
[00:48:45] Aubrey: The fact that you're a new business and you're even already thinking about this, if we could get everyone just a little more conscientious of it from the start,
[00:49:00] Aubrey: and it's like, it doesn't have to be a lot. It's just a little bit. It's as you can do it. You know, I don't think anyone's going to be mad at you because like you said, okay, you know what? We just didn't have it this month. We couldn't do it. But like, I'll find a different way.
[00:49:22] Jacqueline: Because you have to ask the question, right? What's, what's, what's more important. Do you keep the business alive? That's going to continue to have that focus that the community is important, or are you going to give away all your money and go out of business? I don't know. So it's kind of, it is tough. Like it is, it's a hard weight and you know, we closed. For a week for that, damn, what's it called? Um, COVID, uh, we closed for a week for COVID. And I mean, like, you don't think about it, like, that is a huge, huge traumatic hit to a business that's 18 months old. Like, the bills didn't stop. I mean, I owe DoorDash, God,
[00:50:00] Jacqueline: they're gonna hunt me down soon. Like, because I have to, it's my third party delivery service. But like, for me, I'm like, well... DoorDash isn't going to stop delivering because they'll pile up this, whatever. It's fine. But I do need to like pay my taxes and I need to like pay my employees. And I need to like stay involved in my community. So it's like, you're constantly like weighing out, how do I make this work? But then I talked to like other business owners and find out like that. They can't get delivered from like multiple vendors. Cause they just defaulted on all of their bills. And you're like, well, I don't want to do that. You know, it's just, it's, I don't know. There's a great meme account called The Sussmans out of New York and they're on Instagram and it's like their memes are so perfect for what, of course, like one of my, one of my employees, yeah, one of my employees told me about them, but shout out at The Sussmans because they are hilarious. Their business, their restaurant owners in New York and their memes are so scarily on point where it's just like, I don't know that constant theme. I want to do good, but then just like tidal wave.
[00:51:00] Aubrey: Yeah. I just appreciate you to your point that even though I don't have money or I don't have as much money as I want, I feel like people just get too stuck on the money part and you're being creative. Okay. I don't have the money. What do I have? I have my time. I have my own physical, you know, strength and ability to do things. And that those are all. You know, tools and whatnot. So I love that you're still able to be so conscientious of that. So thank you for sharing kind of the end. So as we kind of close up, what are just some general things this throughout the conversation, but in just like a couple, the top priorities for you that you would really like to see moving forward for the industry. What do you wanna see more of? Like in your dream world, what are the things we should work on?
[00:51:49] Jacqueline: I have put thought into this because I knew that you would ask me like something like this and I've really been thinking about it and and I think about like what makes Kitsch like
[00:52:00] Jacqueline: special and unique and like why people come in every single day like sometimes multiple times a day and I think at the end of the day as Chefs, busboys, managers, like any position that you hold in the food industry whatsoever. I think that it's really important to remember that no one came to your restaurant today to have a bad time. Like every single guest came because they wanted to experience joy. They wanted to eat good food and they wanted to like. Be around other people with that same collective interest of enjoying the environment, enjoying the music, and just having a great time. And I think that what gets lost in the sauce all the time. Is that, that's like number one, the most important thing. And like, for me, like it is 80 to 120 tickets that come in every
[00:53:00] Jacqueline: day. And now it is 80 to 120 opportunities to like completely change someone's day and like put it on the right foot. I don't know, like no one comes to a restaurant to have a bad time. So if. You're going to a restaurant and having a bad time every day, maybe you're the problem, you know, like, you gotta just kind of go with that, like, it's just like, just think about that, like, everyone's coming in to have a good time, so it should be fun, right?
[00:53:28] Aubrey: And I love that your everyone includes you and your staff, like, you truly mean everyone, not just parents and students.
[00:53:34] Jacqueline: That's the point! It's supposed to be a good time. Like, I don't know. That's, that's literally why people go out to eat. They want to feel that feeling. They want to feel part of something. And that's, I think, we just forget about it. We think that's not the point. We worry about like P&Ls and we worry about labor and you worry about food costs and, and it's just, it's the point. Yeah. All those things need to make sense. Like all of the
[00:54:00] Jacqueline: back-end programming needs to make sense. But at the end of the day, if the dining room isn't just like, or your takeout counter isn't just like joy and happiness and excitement and like good smells and good music and just this awesome collective experience, then you are totally missing the point.
[00:54:19] Aubrey: Couldn't have said it better myself, and I don't think there is any other way to…
[00:54:22] Jacqueline: I don't even know! You know, I was driving around yesterday and I was thinking about like, so what the F am I doing owning a restaurant? Like I ask myself these questions all the time. Like, cause if you don't know what you're there for or what you're doing, like, what's the point? And that's where people say, like, I want to open a restaurant. I will ask you all the hard questions because it's, I mean, I don't know. I've watched babies grow up. I've watched people get dogs. I've, I've gotten a ticket that someone's child was born and that they were at St. Joseph's or whatever. And they were
[00:55:00] Jacqueline: ordering food for pickup for mom and not baby, but you know, mom subsequently baby eventually, but you know, it's just, but it's the whole concept of just like, You can either like just go with it and invite all of this amazing energy into your life or you can be that like terrible server from waiting that is just miserable all the time and hates everyone. That's your choice. You know, Band Camp. Good time, bad time.
[00:55:27] Aubrey: I literally couldn't have asked for some of everything that we talked about. Oh, I know that was a lot and I'm so very grateful to you.
[00:55:38]Jacqueline: Oh, great.
Rapid fire questions
[00:55:40] Aubrey: So we have one last little surprise for you as we're going to do a little rapid fire that I didn't tell you about.
[00:55:50] Jacqueline: I'm glad you didn't tell me about it.
[00:55:53] Aubrey: I have a little deli container here because we're industry folks classic and we're going to pick 4 questions at random. So that
[00:56:00] Aubrey: way all our guests will eventually answer the same questions. But that way, you all can't prepare. Okay, so you kind of talked about this one, actually, a little bit, but how do you get re inspired for anything? For life? For Kitsch?
[00:56:20] Jacqueline: I smoke weed.
[00:56:22] Aubrey: I mean, I support that. That's totally fine.
[00:56:27] Jacqueline: Listen, at the end of the day, like even, even when I worked in corporate jobs, people would be like, wow, this, this restaurant's dessert menu is incredible. How did you come up with this? And I'm like, how did I come up with it? S'mores Blondie with a Klondike bar on top stamped in gold. How do you think I'd come up with that?
[00:56:56] Aubrey: That is incredible. I have nothing else to say because I could not agree anymore. So yes, next question.
[00:57:08] Jacqueline: You thought I was going to say self care, didn't you?
[00:57:10] Aubrey: No, no. Your answer, your answer. That I've imagined the answers could be. It's what chef's voice sticks with you. And what do they say? But I feel like you touched on this already.
[00:57:27] Jacqueline: My baking instructor from school was incredible now, but the person that I think continues to inspire me every single day is, his name is Stefan Reimer, Reimer, Reimer, Reimer. I can never remember. He was my Executive Pastry Chef at Boardwalk Resort and Yacht and Beach Club Resort in Disney World. Now he's gone on to be the Corporate Pastry Chef for all of Walt Disney World. Cruise lines and properties and whatever, whatever, whatever he does it all. And I think, uh, he sticks with me because he never stops imagining and he never stops celebrating joy and there are no limits and that's cool.
[00:57:53] Aubrey: Oh, he really is the best place then to be at Disney.
[00:58:00] Jacqueline: And he fought for us. Like they wanted us to switch to like a bag brownie mix and he was like straight out of Berlin. So like in a very like thick German accent. He was going off about how like, it was like a five star luxury resort and how like Pillsbury wasn't good enough and that we would never stop making our Valrhona chocolate brownies. And I loved that.
[00:58:00] Aubrey: Okay. Favorite thing to eat or favorite meal you've ever experienced?
[00:58:08] Jacqueline: Honestly, my favorite thing to eat, and I'm not trying to be cheese monger. My favorite thing to eat is, honest to God, anything that Michael cooks. Anything that my boyfriend, I know, anything that my partner cooks, we're about to go on another. We like to sail. He, he sails, vise a vise, I now like to sail. I mean, who doesn't like the water? And I am from like Annapolis, so it's like meant to be. I also have an anchor tattoo, so I can like validate it now. But yeah, we are going on a sailing charter in April and it's going to be just like five days of being in Key West and eating food and living in Margaritaville. And that is my favorite when you're like moving and eating food at the same time. That's the best part.
[00:58:48] Aubrey: I love that. I'm actually a little jealous, but you know, that's fine. What is something others usually don't know about you?
[00:58:58] Jacqueline: I know it's supposed to be rapid, but I'm just trying to think about the thing that's like, you know, like, I don't know. I can play the saxophone. Oh, you know what? Here's a fun thing. I actually, I played hockey for like, I played ice hockey growing up for like 10 years, honestly, God. And I think it surprises people because once they learn that they're like, Oh, so that's why you can put up with all of this industry. And I'm like, yeah, cause I just got yelled at for like10 years straight.
[00:59:32] Aubrey: I know. I loved it. Once you said it, I'm like, I see that. That makes sense.
[00:59:38] Jacqueline: Yeah. It makes sense. That's why I just, I just get, you know, yep. That's it. Perfect.
Closing
Music fades in…
[00:59:43] Aubrey: If you enjoyed today's episode, I encourage you to follow Kitsch online so you can keep in touch with them and see all the amazing things they have going on. You can find them, @kitsch.cafe on Instagram. Or, to get all the details about their latest expansion project, check out @kitsch.bus. And, in case you didn't know, going forward this season, all interview episodes are going to have a special piece of merchandise inspired by the episode, and each chef has had the opportunity to choose a cause of their choice that they want to support. So go to our website, goldenapproachpodcast.com to see the special edition piece of merch created for this episode that will be supporting Planned Parenthood. We're really excited to be able to raise some money for them and we hope you'll show us and them some love. So go to our website to check that out. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Golden Approach podcast. If you enjoyed listening, I would super appreciate it if you would share us with a friend or maybe give us a follow. That's cool too. And if you want to hang out with us some more, follow on Instagram @goldenapproachpod, or check out our website, goldenapproachpodcast.com for more details, such as transcripts and reference links from today's episode. Until next time though, remember, everything's going to be just fine.
Music fades out…
Resources:
Local Baltimore Ice Cream shops: Charmery and Taharka Brothers
Follow Kitsch and Kitsch Bus on Instagram
