Mental Health & Mental Wealth with John-Henry Strong
EP 202: John-Henry Strong, LGPC
After a close personal experience with grief, John-Henry shares how he found fulfillment in grief counseling, as well as a career he could be passionate about.
EPISODE OUTLINE
[00:01:14] Getting to Know Our Guest
[00:06:17] How It All Started
[00:10:15] Resiliency and Dealing with Grief
[00:17:51] Building Better
[00:26:20] Social Media, AI, and Technology
[00:33:07] Controlling What You Can and Letting Go of What You Can’t
[00:36:47] Biological, Psychological, Sociological, and Cultural Context Matters
[00:40:13] Accessing Mental Health Counseling, Treatment, and Care
[00:45:34] Rapid Fire Time
RESOURCES
Where to Find Us:
Mentioned in the Episode:
Ways to Support the Show:
Explore our bookshelf on Bookshop.org
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Aubrey: Oh hi! Before we get into the episode, in case you haven't listened to the last one, which I of course do recommend you do, then you don't know about all the cool new things we have launching this month and next. So real quick, I wanted to touch base on Ko-fi, which is launching September 2nd. I am most excited for this one because it's finally a real opportunity to start gathering and connecting as a community together. We have put so much work and heart into creating great content and resources for you in there that really build off the intention of the show. To use story sharing as a way to create curiosity and kindness. Because when you know better, you do better. So head to our website and subscribe to our very few but intentional emails so you can join the GAP community on Ko-fi, launching September 2nd. See you there!
Music fades in…
[00:00:50] Aubrey: Hi, Sunshine, and welcome to the show. I'm your host, Aubrey, a hopeful romantic who's always loved getting to know others and learning what I don't know. Here I
[00:01:00] Aubrey: chat with kindhearted humans and insightful professionals sharing their stories to learn from each other's experiences in hope of going beyond the golden rule and collectively building a more kind and curious world for all. This is the golden approach. I'm so grateful you're here.
Music transitions…
Getting to Know Our Guest
[00:01:14] Aubrey: I'm joined today by John-Henry Strong, a friend as well as newly licensed mental health practitioner and graduate of Johns Hopkins University. These days, I think we can all agree the world's a lot to handle. As some listening may have heard, earlier this summer, my in-law family suffered a loss. And as a result, the ideas of grief and trauma have really been at the forefront of my mind. But with whatever you may have going on in your world, John-Henry really provides us all some helpful little nuggets to support through whatever life brings our way. So without further ado, let's get to the good stuff.
Music fades out…
[00:01:55] Aubrey: Hey, John-Henry, thank you so much for being here. I cannot tell you how grateful I am that you've agreed to be on the podcast, so thank you so much.
[00:02:00] John-Henry: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.
[00:02:04] Aubrey: So we are going to start where we always start on the show, which is an opportunity for you to introduce yourself to the listeners who probably don't know you. So who are you? What do you do? What do you like to do? Just give us a quick little rundown.
[00:02:22] John-Henry: Sure. Yeah. My name is John-Henry Strong. This past May I graduated from Johns Hopkins, with my master's in clinical mental health counseling. So, coming up in August, I will be a licensed mental health practitioner, working for an organization down in Glen Burnie, Maryland. This first license will be a Licensed Graduate Professional Counselor and then I will upgrade into a Licensed Clinical Professional Counselor. The titles of counselor and therapist are interchangeable.
[00:02:48] Aubrey: Okay, cool. That's great.
[00:02:50] John-Henry: Um, so yeah, at the moment I'm now also a brand new father of a daughter who is healthy and everything's great. Not as sleepless as I thought I would be, so I'm surprisingly feeling okay. [00:03:00] Um, a little bit more about me. I'm Maryland born and raised. I grew up outside DC in Rockville. I went to college in Ohio at a tiny little university called Denison and then I jumped around from multiple different cities across the US, in between then and now, primarily working in corporate sales, and then, changed careers in the pandemic and moved to Baltimore where we're settling in.
[00:03:23] Aubrey: I actually, in all these years I've known you, I didn't realize you were a career changer. I thought this was all your vision, your dream. So what was the moment that you were like, yeah, corporate sales is not for me. Now I'm going to go into like, grief counseling?
[00:03:36] John-Henry: When I graduated college, I didn't know what I wanted to do at the time and so moved back home with my parents, was feeling sorry for myself. So I just threw out a whole bunch of applications to some entry-level jobs in the D.C. area. and so the first one that accepted me with a reasonable pay was a business development representative role. Which sounds all nice and professional but I quickly realized that is cold calls
[00:04:00] John-Henry: and outreach, and it is just very basic sales. and so it paid the bills at the time and I was actually learning some interesting things so I stuck with the company. It's a market research firm, essentially is what it was. Called. C.E.B. and so I lived in D.C. while I was working there for a little bit. And then the company got acquired by a larger tech firm called Gartner and in that moment, they transitioned my role out to San Francisco. And I switched into less of a cold call type of role to more account management, which is making sure your clients are happy and continuing to keep their business with you. And so I spent a couple of years in San Francisco and then moved to Denver where I was closer to my clients and then March of 2020 hit with the pandemic. And across those years when I was in sales, I had always known that it was not my end all be all. I did not have the heart for sales. I learned a lot and I was around a lot of smart people, which I appreciated, but then when push came to shove in the pandemic, I quickly realized this was just not the thing that I wanted to keep doing.
[00:05:00] John-Henry: There was a specific moment where that decision was pretty solidified for me. I was on a call with a client, who was an agricultural company in Idaho. Essentially, they grew all the potatoes for all the fast-food companies in the United States. It was a call where I was asking him if he wanted to renew business with us. And, when I asked him that, he said, honestly, John-Henry, I could renew my business with you guys, or I could save the jobs of three of my employees, and I'm going to save the jobs of my employees. And in sales, you're supposed to try and convince them to maybe continue working with you. But at that moment, I was just like, you know what? That is the right move. You should do that. I don't have anything to say about that. It was in that moment where I realized, okay, I just don't have the heart for this anymore. I need to do something else where I actually feel more invested and more dedicated to something.
[00:05:52] Aubrey: Honestly, I knew none of that and it all makes perfect sense and I also really respect that you knew where your boundaries were and were
[00:06:00] Aubrey: like, this is not where I'm meant to be. This is not how I want to use my time or my skills. So did you already have in mind your current path, or did you then start playing that game again of reapplying and seeing what the next step was?
How It All Started
[00:06:17] John-Henry: Um, sort of knew the direction I wanted to go. The past couple years before that I have been volunteering at this organization called Experience Camps, which is it's a grief summer camp for children who have lost parents, siblings who are primary caregivers, and that was one of the only times where I've truly felt that I really enjoyed the work that I was doing. Even if it was just volunteer work, it was just a really rewarding experience. And so when I was done with sales and I was still just tagging along in that job until I found something else, I really, I based my search and decisions around what sounds and feels most rewarding to me. So I came to that conclusion of maybe I should go back to school for counseling based off of
[00:07:00] John-Henry: that, of, I found it really rewarding to work with people, who were going through really significant things. I felt like I was good at it, and it seemed like it was just something that I felt like I could really benefit others in, rather than just my corporate sales job where I was making my corporation more money.
[00:07:18] Aubrey: I totally get that and respect that. Hence why I'm doing what I am doing right now. Are you willing to share, like an important lesson you might've learned, or something you really carry with you from that experience? Because I feel like that's not something a lot of people, come in contact with.
[00:07:34] John-Henry: Yeah, absolutely. So the personal connection to it is that my mom died in 2016 from lung cancer and it was an experience that really kicked my ass. As it would for anybody, but it was one of those moments where I didn't really expect my parents to die early. I thought they'd grow old together and die of old age But then between diagnosis and death was just about 10 months.
[00:08:00] John-Henry: So it was, it was a really life-changing experience for me and I don't feel like I handled that loss very well. That was right before I moved to San Francisco, and then I moved away from my family and I found myself in the grieving process, drinking too much, just doing some really unhealthy behaviors and habits and different things like that. And so about a year after my mom died and I had started to really, settle into grief and feeling more stable around it all, one of my roommates in San Francisco had previously volunteered for Experience Camps and introduced that to me. And so my thought at the time was, okay, if that loss broke me as much as it did as an adult, I can't imagine what it'd be like to lose a parent or something like that as a child, I figured maybe, my experience would be able to help make it less awful for a child or something along those lines. And so that was where I really started my experience through the camp. And it's actually as daunting as it sounds to volunteer for a children's grief camp. It is, like I mentioned before, the most rewarding experience I've ever had because you can really see the resilience that children have.
[00:09:00] John-Henry: Like, they'll go through some awful experiences, just, True violent trauma, like homicides, suicides, different things like that. And when they warm up to it in camp, they'll sit in a sharing circle and they'll tell their story and get emotional and respond the way that they do and then five minutes later, they'll go have a water balloon fight and they'll just be kids again. And so that's the best part about that camp is that it really just provides children a chance to be kids again and be around other people who have experienced a loss like they have. So, yeah, I think the biggest takeaway that I got, or rewarding experience, from that camp, was just seeing the resiliency that children have.
[00:09:36] Aubrey: What an incredible experience for the kids to have that support, but also for you, especially considering your circumstances and your background, like I think a lot of the things that we struggle with these days is just unsureness on how to deal with hard feelings. So since you've gone through your own experiences, you're doing this professionally, is there anything that you think would be good insight for people [00:10:00] who maybe are going through a loss? Or it could just be that they have built up residual feelings from different traumas they've experienced. Like, how do you start processing that? How do you start finding peace, with some of those harder feelings?
Resiliency and Dealing with Grief
[00:10:15] John-Henry: So there are a couple of ways to go about it, but essentially what the real, golden rule is for grief and loss is that there's no one right way to grieve. Everybody will experience it and process a loss or a trauma in their own way. and from my Semiprofessional background, as a soon-to-be licensed counselor, the time that there's warning lights going off, in terms of how somebody is grieving, is whether or not they're starting to conduct self-destructive behaviors or, are starting to, slip into bad habits and different things like that. Like I mentioned before, with my own experience, of I was drinking too much, it's things like that, are areas in which we want to keep an eye out in terms of unhealthy grieving. But very common experiences that people will have in grief,
[00:11:00] John-Henry: especially in the United States and American society is not built in a healthy way to process grief. Nobody knows the right things to say to anybody who's going through a loss. Most of the expectations are to get over it in a couple of months or something along those lines. Especially, at least this experience as being a man, is I've had several people in the past tell me you got a man up and you got to get over it. Which, it's one thing to say it, but on the other hand, it's just not the right way to go about how you process grief. People who are going through a loss, and a loss can be the loss of a loved one, the loss can be being let go from a job you loved. It could be, literally anything that is lost within your life. So the best way to go about it is really just experiencing whatever emotions come up. In terms of unhealthy ways of grief, people are afraid of feeling anger in their grief. People might feel upset with the person who died and will feel bad about themselves for feeling that way, but anger is a very
[00:12:00] John-Henry: common response to grief. And I guess the long-winded answer to your question is, just, giving yourself the chance to sit and experience anything that comes up in the process and then just keep an eye out for unhealthy habits and that might be a time when you want to seek some professional help is if there's if you're starting to fall off the deep end a little bit.
[00:12:16] Aubrey: I appreciate you being willing to be so long-winded, to be honest, because to your point about how our society functions, I am very big on context matters. We know as a society that we have this sort of aggressive, assertive, “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” attitude, but why is that? Why is that still a thing? Well, it's a thing because that's how our country was built. Like all these people who came here and the traumas that occurred because of that. And it's all still existing. It's all very much alive, even if we're not talking about it, like a current trauma. And to your point and what you do, sometimes maybe you're working with people who have recently had that trauma occur, loss of a parent or something of that nature,
[00:13:00] Aubrey: but I would imagine that you've also come into context with certain experiences of people who are circling back, I guess is the way to put it. Like maybe the trauma happened a while back, but to your point, those destructive habits were never dealt with. They grew over time. So would you say the answer is the same or do you go about it any differently the more like rooted or ingrained in you that it is?
[00:13:24] John-Henry: It's a really good question. And trauma is a really nuanced aspect of things. So there's going to be differences between a repressed trauma and then, a loss that happened a long time ago that might be emerging again. If you are going through a recent loss and then there are previous experiences that start coming up with that, the same processes really do apply of, let the emotions and let whatever comes up come through you. there could be a lot of things that come up that, let's say if you lost a sibling or a parent when you were eight years old, and then now that you're 35 and let's say your dad dies or something along those lines, there's a lot of unprocessed
[00:14:00] John-Henry: grief from that previous loss that you as a child had not yet developed the skills or the cognitive functions to fully understand what was going on at the time. So a lot of those will be coming up again in a secondary loss that might be more recent. In terms of trauma, trauma is a really interesting theme and it's a word that gets thrown around a lot these days. Everybody talks about a trauma they experienced, and it's very true that a lot of people might be realizing something that happened in their past these days could have been classified as a trauma. but trauma is technically defined as a life-threatening event or experience that occurs to somebody, and the actual traumatic damage that can happen to somebody, emotionally is when the body just has an inability to process that experience in a healthy manner. It really just overloads an individual's coping mechanisms. So, for instance, that's why there are some veterans or soldiers who experience very similar events on a
[00:15:00] John-Henry: battlefield, like getting blown up by an IED or something like that. And one soldier can come off without very many symptoms at all, while another will be experiencing debilitating PTSD symptoms. And it's an individual's cognitive abilities to process that traumatic event. If it overloads somebody's capabilities that is when a trauma occurs, and that's when experiences like nightmares and sleeplessness and flashbacks and things like that can occur because the individual is not able to process in a healthy manner, or in a healthy capacity, the experience that happened to them.
[00:15:35] Aubrey: So is it true, am I understanding correctly as a novice who has no psychological background whatsoever as a pastry chef, that it really comes down to whatever personal foundation building, opportunities with developing emotions, developing, personal connection or familial connections. Does that actually influence at all your ability to cope better from a traumatic experience, or is that really just, it comes down
[00:16:00] Aubrey: to the individual and it's a crapshoot and you just don't know until it happens kind of thing?
[00:16:06] John-Henry: It's a little bit of both, but yes, pre-existing factors can play an impact in terms of how a traumatic event can impact you. Another really important piece, too, is how one processes that traumatic event afterwards. If something happens and then you just go along your business, and you don't actually process the experience that happened, that can really, increase the risk of, experiencing, symptoms of PTSD or something along those lines. There's been studies in terms of like crisis interventions and responses where immediate processing of the event within the following days of a traumatic event can significantly reduce the rates of PTSD in the long run. So a lot of pre-existing factors of how you're raised, some of the support that you have around you can upfront prevent or reduce the amount or impact the amount that a traumatic event can impact you, but then on top of that, it's that processing afterwards[00:17:00] that is also really important.
Music fades in…
[00:17:03] Aubrey: Maybe you've noticed, there's no commercials on this show, and that's because currently, we don't have sponsors. And while maybe, I don't know, someday that's going to happen, for now, this show is totally funded by yours truly, and thankfully, the incredible support of you, the listener. So if you like the show and want to make sure it continues to exist and grow, we would super appreciate your support. Just go check out our merch link in the show notes. And, in case you didn't know, every person we interview gets to choose a cause of choice. We then create a custom episode merch piece and donate five dollars for every piece sold, and I would say that's a real win-win. So head to the show notes and check out all this season's custom merch! Thank you so much, we couldn't do this without you.
Music fades out…
Building Better
[00:17:51] Aubrey: So in your dream world or in your professional opinion or however it is you want to go about it, how do you think that we could actually build a world that
[00:18:00] Aubrey: supports people in the way they actually deserve and need to be supported so we can all be like more wholesome, healed humans? I don't know if that's too big of an ask, but I just want to give you an opportunity to express your dream world, you know?
[00:18:14] John-Henry: Yeah. yeah, if I had the solution to that, then I would be working to implement that as much as I could at the moment. But in terms of a dream world and in ways that we can build empathy and care around each other is really just, I think the first part being, moving away from social media a little bit and actually having human-to-human interactions again. I think the pandemic really did a lot of damage around that of no longer having actual in-person human interactions anymore. People will look at a post online and automatically just have a thought about something but you can't really talk it out with somebody in person or anything along those lines. So I think in my dream world, it would really just be increasing human-to-human interactions, really practicing empathy from a really early age. It's difficult to do that, especially these days because there are
[00:19:00] John-Henry: so many individuals within the United States that are really still working to fulfill their basic needs and it's difficult to reach an empathetic perspective on life when you don't have money to pay rent and you're on the brink of homelessness, or you are, shoplifting food because you don't have money for food or something along those lines. If you're looking back into your psychology background, there's Maslow's hierarchy of needs, which are the basics of how to progress into eventually self-actualization. But, that would be it, is ensuring everybody just have their basic needs met in order to build into more empathetic interactions with each other across our society.
[00:19:35] Aubrey: When I was working at a teaching kitchen, teaching baking classes, John-Henry and I got to work together there. And, I would bring this up all the time in my breads class. Everything comes back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs, even when you don't expect it. And I do think It's unfortunate that humans being supported by each other has become political and it shouldn't be. It is just obvious. It's the key to thriving and the more support we provide for each other and we meet those basic needs, the more enlightened and more potential we can reach.
[00:20:00] Aubrey: So I think that should just go without saying, but I'm glad that we said it. So I was just curious, it's not so much about giving me examples on how people could afford mental health in those scenarios of survival mode, um, sort of if there's anything you might suggest on things they could do themselves to balance out their mental health or, any sort of free resource, anything of that nature that can make mental health feel more tangible and more accessible to someone who is truly in basic survival mode.
[00:20:38] John-Henry: Yeah, there are a couple ways to go about that answer. The first one being is, if you're in true survival mode and it really is looking like there's just no way out and there's some real desperation going on in one's life, the best free resource to utilize is the somewhat new, national hotline, the 988 crisis line. It's a free resource
[00:21:00] John-Henry: that will automatically connect you to a crisis counselor. And it's not like the suicide hotline where you can call in and get some guidance around suicidal thoughts or ideas or anything like that. But 988 is really a crisis line. So if somebody is going through a crisis, like, if you are 1 bill away from losing your house, or if you haven't been able to find a job and you just can't, things are just not looking good. The crisis line will connect you to a local crisis counselor that can then guide you in the moment, but then also will be that resource to guide you to local areas of support. There really are a lot of local resources that I think are free that can really be helpful for individuals that are going through a crisis. And it's really difficult to actually find those things unless you have somebody that can do that. So the 988 crisis line is probably that 1st line of defense when things are just really bad. Another area to go into that response with is around coping mechanisms. Again, this is in the, the zeitgeist these days.
[00:22:00] John-Henry: People will talk about coping and coping mechanisms and things along those lines and to simplify, coping mechanisms are really just the ways in which an individual can manage stress and anxiety on their own. Some people really have much stronger coping abilities and mechanisms than other individuals. So again, it is a really personalized thing. and people develop their own coping mechanisms in their own ways, through their own life experiences. So the other way to reducing stress and anxiety without the ability to seek mental health is to really utilize your own coping mechanisms. and there definitely are worksheets online where you can identify what those might be for you, but they can be super simple. Like a coping mechanism can be going for a run. A lot of times exercise really is a good stress reducer for people. But then there are people who live, specifically in Baltimore, where it might actually be dangerous to go outside and exercise. So they might not be able to resort to those types of coping mechanisms, but even then, other ways to relieve stress again from an individualized perspective is if somebody has,
[00:23:00] John-Henry: a really good like artistic capability to draw or journal or things along those lines. Just getting whatever is garbled up in your head, just out on paper or out into some sort of art form can really be helpful for individuals. So it's really just being able to identify your own personal coping mechanisms and abilities and utilizing those when things are really stressful. But in terms of like mindfulness activities and things like that, the biggest one, and I used to, before I went into the mental health profession, I used to make fun of people who would do breathing activities and things like that. I thought it was so like just pseudoscience until I had a panic attack and then breathing techniques brought me out of it. But the easiest one for people to incorporate just, on a daily basis. If you get caught off in traffic and you feel that rage come up or you're anxious about a work project or something along those lines, it's called box breathing. And I guarantee it can really help coming from somebody who used to think
[00:24:00] John-Henry: that breathing exercises were pseudoscience. But box breathing is you inhale for four seconds. Hold it for four seconds, exhale for four seconds, and then hold that for four seconds. So think of the inhale as the one side of the box, the holding it for the as the top of the box, the exhale as the other side of the box, and then the bottom of the box is that last holding your breath for four seconds. So that's an easy one that you can incorporate whenever you need.
[00:24:27] Aubrey: I think this is great because, to your point, little things hiccup all day long. Especially these days, we've touched on this multiple times in this episode, it's just there's a lot of, there's a lot of pent-up feelings, and there's a lot of pent-up energy that maybe isn't always getting used in the most positively, productive way because it's just like overwhelming people. So helpful. So, I wasn't necessarily trying to go here with this conversation. However, I can't help but ask but you can totally say no. If you don't want.
[00:24:58] John-Henry: I'm an open book
[00:25:00] Aubrey: So one of the things that I reflect on when I'm just walking my dogs or grocery shopping, living my life, weirdly, is we are actually in a time called the Great Transition. Like, when it comes to how humans have existed for all of human history, and the kind of future that we're building with all this AI and technology and the kind of communities we're building. It is quite literally called the Great Transition and these evolutionary concepts that have kept us alive and thriving over the years don't really fit in the world that we're building. Like they don't make sense in all the AI and technology. They don't make sense in the individualism that is being built in our societies versus the more like communal aspects that have existed before. So just as a human who happens to work in psychology, who is a lovely person, do you feel similarly to that? Is that something you feel like you see in your work of people
[00:26:00] Aubrey: having these kinds of like emotions and instincts that they don't really know what to do with? Or maybe that's just me, I'm just like, okay, this feels instinctual, but it doesn't connect with the world I'm living in. And I don't know what to do with these feelings. I don't know what to do with these emotions. I'm curious, does that, any of that resonate with you at all?
Social Media, AI, and Technology
[00:26:20] John-Henry: Yeah, absolutely. This is personal. This is not a clinical perspective, but I think in terms of the pace in which technology is advancing at the moment is outpacing humans' capacity to process. So if we're going back to social media, one of the main issues that I personally have with social media is that it is so easy to get essentially that dose of pleasure. If you go on to social media, and you see a video of like puppies or something along those lines, you can just go through that and you can keep getting that dose of serotonin just for hours and hours. And then on the other hand too, you can tap into that fight or flight mode aspect of things by reading something that angers you online and
[00:27:00] John-Henry: you get that immediate flash of anger and you can continue building on that, through this like endless loop. So in terms of the way in which we're progressing at the moment, I do think that social media is the, is one of the easy examples to show where it is outpacing our ability and our instincts as humans. I think one of the things that I plan to with my clients, going forward is really giving people an encouragement to, reduce their time online and just see how it impacts your daily life. for me personally, when I was in San Francisco, I was selected for a study from, I think it was Facebook they would give me 100 bucks if I stopped using Instagram for three weeks. And, what I noticed were both, habitual and emotional changes that came with not using it. From the habitual side of things, I deleted the app, and when I would open up my phone, instinctually, I would swipe over to where Instagram was. It would be an instinctual or just a habitual, click where it should be. And then you realize “Oh, wait, it's not on my phone
[00:28:00] John-Henry: anymore.” So it's a habit that you build over and over again. And then what I found pretty quickly within a week after that was I noticed that the way that I viewed the world, outside of online really just changed for the better. I just, I started to see things a little bit more positively. And I started to appreciate things that you take for granted when you're like walking down the street. So it was how quickly I noticed changes just by stopping using social media for a week, really solidified in me that the pace that technology is moving at the moment is dangerous in terms of how we can cope with it as humans. And, I think some of the habits that we build around it all is troublesome
[00:28:42] Aubrey: Uh, completely agree. I have brought this up on multiple previous episodes that I will happily relink for people to go back to listen to but I have talked about how I have set timers to check myself on how many hours a day was I actually spending. And I set what I thought was a ridiculous
[00:29:00] Aubrey: amount of time when I first started this habit. I set like two and a half hours a day was my max on Instagram thought there was no possible way I was hitting two and a half hours a day. And damn, if I did not get that timer reminder multiple times in the first week. It's not even like I was forever scrolling, but it was opening, doing a random scroll, and then exiting the app real quick, that was just adding up to hours a day. And that really grounded me. So I talked about this in a previous episode that every time I'd want to click Instagram, I'd click Duolingo instead. And I understand, it's a little bit of a dangerous game saying switch an app for an app. However, at least it's educational, so whatever people's version is, do it. But I am with you that I don't even think we realize how much time and how influential we've let that get. However, there are of course opportunities where social media is something that maybe is the one thing people have access to,
[00:30:00] Aubrey: right? Maybe they're in a more isolated, limited situation, and it is the most consistent resource that they have access to explore what the world has to offer. So on that note, is there anything on the more positive side that maybe you suggest social media could be used for?
[00:30:19] John-Henry: Yeah, there are definitely benefits that come out of social media. One of the first ones that come to mind is, in terms of, kind of this new rising acceptance of seeking mental health care. People feel more comfortable sharing their life stories and things along those lines. I think that can be helpful to build confidence in oneself. If somebody does scroll through Instagram and see something that they can completely relate to, and then have this sort of epiphany that they thought it was just something that only they had gone through in the past, but they're seeing other people experience it. I think that could be a really beneficial aspect for social media.
[00:30:56] Aubrey: And so with that being said, as just a human or as a professional,
[00:31:00] Aubrey: what is something you wish you could share with someone who maybe does carry a lot of nervousness or uncomfortable feelings about seeking help, asking questions, just in general in their life? What would you say or where could they go?
[00:31:16] John-Henry: So there's a lot of scary stuff going on in our world right now but one of the good things is that care, in terms of mental health, is being destigmatized. It is more of an accepted thing to reach out for help to go to a therapist or to get counseling or something along those lines. So I think it's more, important to reach out and get the help, and then if there's any blowback from that then so be it. But I think the most important part if I could tell somebody or tell myself from an earlier age is go get the help if it works great, if it doesn't then you can find something else. I think another thing in terms of seeking help, what I would tell my younger self when I first started getting therapy is don't hesitate to quit a therapist and find somebody that works
[00:32:00] John-Henry: better for you. Don't feel obligated to stay with a therapist that isn't quite meeting your needs just because you feel bad about leaving them or anything like that. Therapists and counselors are professionals and there is no expectation of loyalty. If you are experiencing something or have a diagnosis that is not being treated by the person that you're seeing, go somewhere else. A lot of the first couple sessions is like speed dating or first dates. Get to know the person that you're working with, and if it's just not a good fit, then it's not gonna be a good fit five sessions down. and don't hesitate to find somebody else.
[00:32:34] Aubrey: I also have said this on the show. I'm so glad now I can have a professional back me up on this, that it's like any relationship. You just date till you find the right person. So thank you for reiterating that. I want to give you the opportunity cause I've gotten to ask lots of questions, but I just want to turn it around for you. Is there anything that like, from your experience, again, it can be as a professional or just as a human being that you're like, I think this is a really important
[00:33:00] Aubrey: thing to talk about, or that you think just like really influenced you and stuck in your heart that you feel like is worth sharing?
Controlling What You Can and Letting Go of What You Can’t
[00:33:07] John-Henry: Yeah, there, there's so many I can go with. I think one of the things that helped ease a lot of stress in my mind was the moment that I realized that I need to focus on the things that I can control in my life. And don't put effort or stress into the things that you can't control. I'm talking very meta at the moment too, of like there's a lot of scary stuff in terms of politics and the world and just everything going on right now, no matter what side of the political spectrum you're on or anything along those lines. But I remember myself being so angry and upset in the past few years about certain things that were happening in the geopolitical perspective, but I just had this moment one time, like after a therapy session where I realized. What good is it doing me to be fretting about this type of stuff? No matter how much anger I feel or frustration I feel, it's not going to change what's going on.
[00:34:00] John-Henry: The only ways that I can really make myself feel better or improve my own perspective or my own life is to focus on the things that I can control. So a lot of that, too, goes back to me changing my job. I was lucky enough to have the financial capacity to go back to school, and take some time off from being fully employed to find the thing in life that I enjoy. So that was an area that I was able to control. It's the same thing, too, in terms of like easing anxiety and stress, there's little things within your life that you can control that can really impact some of this stuff. And so whether or not that is just decluttering every spring or that's starting to exercise or something along those lines, the focus for me really is the little things within my life that I can control that can have an impact on how I'm feeling or how I am as a person.
[00:34:47] Aubrey: I think this is the best advice anyone can give, to be honest, because to your point, it sounds cheesy, but for me, the way I've always described it is baggage. I don't know why I started doing this over the last, maybe two years, where finally it just clicked for me and
[00:35:00] Aubrey: I was like, that's not my baggage. I can't carry that for you. I can barely carry my own shit. Maybe I can help you carry your bags a little bit, right? While you're figuring it out just to be helpful, but eventually I'm going to have to choose and I'm going to have to put it down. And that's all any of us can do. We can only control ourselves. We can only offer what we can offer.
[00:35:23] John-Henry: Yeah. On top of that too, another point that I wanted to make is it's so easy these days to just classify somebody as this or that, and there's no nuance in looking at somebody anymore. If you're looking on social media, somebody posts something, it's natural for everybody, but you automatically assume something about that person based off what you're seeing without really considering what else is going on. I think one of the ways to really start improving your empathetic capacity is to really just wonder what another individual might be going through in a certain moment. It's so easy when you're driving in traffic and somebody cuts you
[00:36:00] John-Henry: off. It's so easy to be like, guy's an idiot, guy's a stupid driver, shouldn't have his license, something along those lines. What if that person is rushing to the hospital because their mom just fell, or something like that? Or, what if they just got the worst news in their life, and their brain is just complete mush trying to figure out what's going on? There are people out there who are just inherently not great people or have habits or behaviors that can negatively impact everybody around them. I think the vast majority of the time, if you see something that bothers you, or if somebody does something that makes you think in a certain way, just try and remember that there might also be something else going on in their life that's causing them to act that way in that specific moment.
[00:36:44] Aubrey: I just, again, I think that is a very good reminder.
Biological, Psychological, Sociological, and Cultural Context Matters
[00:36:47] John-Henry: As professional therapists we look at individuals from a biological, psychological, sociological, and then cultural. It's called biopsychosocial. And so you're conceptualizing an individual with all of those contexts in mind.
[00:37:00] John-Henry: So if we're thinking about the awful Baltimore drivers that there are, we can think about that a lot in terms of, maybe the socio-cultural context of, it can be a historically poor city. So maybe those drivers don't necessarily have access to cars. And so maybe they are driving aggressive because they just don't have as good of an experience in terms of education around driving as somebody else. So it's one of the ways that I try and contextualize this without naturally getting myself into that, this or that thinking.
[00:37:32] Aubrey: Okay, I'm not gonna lie. Now you've really caught my attention because I've never heard of that. So can you repeat the breakdown of that? And I don't know if there's anything you want to speak to on this because I think it's really important.
[00:37:44] John-Henry: Yeah. So for this context, predominantly it's for, understanding a diagnosis or conceptualizing a client who's coming in with a specific presenting problem, but you're supposed to view an individual from a biological, psychological, sociological, and cultural
[00:38:00] Aubrey: context. So, are they male or female at birth? Do they have any cognitive disabilities? That's from the biological side of things. Have they physically developed in certain ways that would maybe inhibit them? Have they been diagnosed with clinical depression in the past? Or do they have a diagnosis of ADD or ADHD? What are some of those psychological symptoms that are presenting? And then from a social context too, if a client's coming in with anxiety, is it, do they experience anxiety when they are around their family, or do they experience anxiety when they're out around strangers? So, that social context of, where those symptoms are emerging. Or do they also have strong support in terms of family or friends? Are they loners? Do they not quite have that support that they need in terms of the social side of things? And then from the cultural perspective, too, I think that's probably the most important one. Culture plays a huge aspect in the presentation of symptoms in terms of a
[00:39:00] Aubrey: diagnosis. Some certain diagnoses are really culturally encased. But a lot of the way that people will seek treatment and will view a diagnosis really comes from how they were raised in terms of their own culture. So from the professional side of things, that's how we view it. But I also do like to use that as a way to maintain empathy in other interactions out in the world these days of what else is going on in their life. Do they have other diagnoses? Do they have a violent background, or were they raised in a violent household? Is that why they're presenting this way in public, certain things along those lines?
[00:39:31] Aubrey: Yeah, we really try on this show to leave people with something simple, but tangible that they can carry with them to maybe think about things differently or to help better develop a skill or something like that. And that one, I just feel would be so helpful for people in building that empathy or regrounding themselves in a situation. Like I'm not trying to make people diagnose people. I want to be so clear. I'm not trying to get people to like psychoanalyze or whatever, just to help better ground themselves
[00:40:00] Aubrey: and connect with others in a quicker way,
[00:40:03] John-Henry: Yeah.
[00:40:04] Aubrey: So we are coming towards the end. Are there any final thoughts or anything that you feel like wasn't covered that you wanted to cover.
Accessing Mental Health Counseling, Treatment, and Care
[00:40:13] John-Henry: Yeah, absolutely, the one that I was thinking about is just being able to provide some practical advice in terms of seeking mental health treatment. There unfortunately really is a backlog of therapists, and there's a really high demand for, mental health counseling these days. And so if people who are listening to this will Google just a therapist in the nearby area, likely there is a wait list. Which could be really difficult if you're experiencing stress, panic or anything like that in the moment and then you have a two month waitlist. One of the things that I want to let people know about is some organizations, in terms of their employee benefits, have something called an employee assistance program, an E.A.P. An E.A.P. Is a program in which an organization, Can
[00:41:00] John-Henry: provide either financial counseling or mental health counseling to their employees if they're going through a crisis along those lines. What they do is they partner with local organizations and it provides faster access to mental health. professionals, by going through that. What I want to make clear, because some people might be concerned about this is does my organization know what goes on in these sessions? Or is this like like a company hired professional where some of what I'm saying in session might get back to the organization? And that's not the case. Everything that is said within counseling sessions is strictly confidential. But I just wanted to make that more known 'cause I think some people will look at their employee benefits packages and not really notice what an E.A.P. is. I think it's a good, helpful way to get some access quick.
[00:41:45] Aubrey: I think there's a lot of, benefits that exist in the world that people just don't know exist, and I love that you're bringing attention to that and making it more approachable for people.
[00:41:50] John-Henry: And then on top of that too, a lot of the complaints that people have with the mental health care system these days is how expensive therapy and counseling can be. I just want to clarify a couple
[00:42:00] John-Henry: of things around that. Insurance can cover certain amounts of counseling. If you do have a good insurance plan that does pay for that type of stuff. The caveat with that is if you are going through your insurance to pay for counseling, most of the time, your insurance company will require a diagnosis from that mental health professional. So if you want to be reimbursed for a session or something like that from your insurance, likely that mental health practitioner will have to come up with a diagnosis for you to send back to your insurance company so they can bill for that. So on the one hand, yes, insurance is great to help pay for counseling. But there is that caveat of they will probably give you a diagnosis, even if there aren't really too many symptoms that you're experiencing. There are a couple, catch all diagnoses within the DSM 5 that some counselors will put on just to, to give you the access to counseling at a little bit of a reduced price, but just wanted to add that on there too.
[00:42:58] Aubrey: No, I think that's a good thing to bring up too because, I've had
[00:43:00] Aubrey: multiple therapists over the years, have gone through, insurance, have not gone through insurance, and I do agree that is a big reason people don't go is it's a lot of money to commit.
[00:43:12] John-Henry: Yeah, definitely. And then also, there's a lot of therapists out there these days that don't accept insurance, which can also be difficult for somebody who is very financially conscious or if there are some financial hardships. The reason behind it is, again, it's not a black and white thing, but the reason behind it is that insurance typically these days only bills and reimburses back at, lower than what is the standard rate for counseling, so counselors and therapists are really only getting about half of what their value time is, which is why therapists, might not be accepting insurance. So I know it can be a hassle when you're looking for some sort of financially conscious way of getting mental health support.
[00:43:49] Aubrey: I'm really so grateful you brought this part of the conversation up. I know it can be maybe boring for people to listen. But it's, again, one of those things that like, they, maybe they listen to this
[00:44:00] Aubrey: episode and they're like, yeah. Okay, I'm going to go find some support start the process and they just dive right out of it because of overwhelm for not even understanding how to get started, they're just like, all these barriers so many, nerves and here you add all this, paperwork and logistics to it. So I think it's a really good thing to bring up. Again, hopefully people find it easier to allow themselves that journey. So, this has been so great, truly. Again, I took us on some really, different directions So I appreciate you just going along with the journey as it happened. but this has been absolutely wonderful.
[00:44:37] John-Henry: Thank you for having me. This has been great. Again, I just want to reiterate that at the time of this, this interview, I am not, I'm not professionally licensed yet, but ideally when this is released, I will be licensed in the state of Maryland. So again, this is not professional counseling advice, but just some insights from somebody who studied it for the past 3 years at Hopkins.
Music fades in…
[00:44:56] Aubrey: Pardon one more quick selfless plug. Anyone [00:45:00] who knows me knows I love books, so we are affiliate partners of bookshop.org, an organization dedicated to keeping local bookstores alive and thriving, because those big corporations, they just don't need any more of our money. So head to the show notes where we've linked our bookshelf and bonus, we'd love if you sent us suggestions to add, you can do so by DMing us on Instagram @goldenapproachpod, or join our email subscriptions on our website, goldenapproachpodcast.com. Okay, let's dive back in.
Music fades out…
Rapid Fire Time
[00:45:34] Aubrey: Final thing, is the rapid fire. So there are six questions. We have carried over a few from last season, but we have added some new ones. And the rules are the same. Everyone gets from the same pool, but different mix of three questions. So, all right, number one: who or what has influenced you most and is there something that in particular sticks with you?
[00:45:56] John-Henry: I think my parents were just
[00:46:00] John-Henry: very instrumental in creating the person that I am today. And, if we're talking about unconditional love and things like that, my, my parents have been supportive of every decision that I've made in my life. Especially my dad was very supportive of me changing careers. He was the first one that told me when I was first going into corporate sales, as long as you stay on the money side of the business and you keep yourself important, then you won't worry about getting laid off or fired or anything along those lines. But then when I came to him saying that I'm thinking about changing careers again, it was just immediate support. Like you said, I'm all in, you should definitely do this. So I think that's probably the answer I'd have for that one.
[00:46:39] Aubrey: That's a good one. Okay, what is a favorite moment with people you love?
[00:46:45] John-Henry: I really think that one of the best moments that I've had has been, my family, when we were younger and more recently, we would go do trips out to Wyoming, way up into the mountains of Wyoming. And again, when we're talking about previously about how social media and your phone can really have [00:47:00] such an impact on your life. Where we would go out to in Wyoming had no cell service or anything like that. So there was a week that we would spend out there. Just our family where you couldn't have any access really to the outside world. You just sat and appreciated the people that you were hanging out with and just the amazing views the mountains, like I would sit and listen to the wind going through the trees and things along those lines. And it was moments like that where you do appreciate the things around you. So I think that's probably one of them.
[00:47:28] Aubrey: That's cool. We used to go to Vermont as a kid.
[00:47:30] John-Henry: Oh, nice. I would love to go to Vermont. I've not been.
[00:47:33] Aubrey: Oh my god. I love Vermont.
[00:47:35] John-Henry: Yeah.
[00:47:36] Aubrey: I feel for them right now because they're just getting killed by these mudslides and rain.
[00:47:41] John-Henry: I’ll definitely make a trip up there for sure.
[00:47:43] Aubrey: All right, last what is on your pump up playlist?
[00:47:46] John-Henry: My pump up playlist?
[00:47:48] Aubrey: Yeah. What do you put on when you just, you gotta get your blood flowing or you just gotta get your day going?
[00:47:53] John-Henry: So the first one that comes to mind is Testify by Rage Against the Machine. If you really want a song that gets your blood going and makes you want to like sprint through
[00:48:00] John-Henry: a wall, Testify is probably the first one that comes to mind for me. Another one and this is somebody that you can follow on Instagram, but there's this musician named Mark Rebillet. I don't know if you've heard of him, but he'll do these spontaneous concerts and he won't have anything planned. He'll just get up and he's a DJ. And so he'll start throwing down a beat and then he'll just yell into the crowd, Give me a topic or something like that. And so somebody will yell out something and they'll just make a song out of whatever was thrown at him. And it's super impressive and it's hilarious. He's just, he's a very outrageous musician, but if I really want to get pumped up, I'll watch some of his videos too. Cause he's just got some really, kind of maniacal energy that you can really feed off of.
[00:48:42] Aubrey: Okay, cool. We will definitely find him, tag him, everyone check him out. Thank you so much again, truly really appreciate you.
[00:48:50] John-Henry: Absolutely.
Music fades in…
[00:48:52] Aubrey: Thank you for listening to the golden approach podcast, which wouldn't be possible without the support of associate producer and content manager, Emmalyn with audio technology and support provided by Barn Swallow Audio Company. If you've liked this
[00:49:00] Aubrey: episode or any episode prior, be sure to follow so you never miss a new release. We greatly appreciate if you helped others find the show also by leaving a review wherever you're currently listening or directly sharing with friends and family. You can find resources, merch, and more in the show notes and website, GoldenApproachPodcast.com. And if you're looking for more content, join our Ko-fi community and follow on Insta @goldenapproachpod. Until next time, let your hopeful romantic side shine always. Buh bye!
Music fades out…
Resources
Support the show, check out our Merch
Support the show, check out our bookshelf on Bookshop.org
Follow/Leave a review on Spotify
