Everything with Intention
Episode 005:
Zachary Mills
Co-owner/Corporate Chef
Chef Shucker Farmer Inc. [Baltimore, Maryland]
Zack Mills is one of the most genuinely kind and talented humans, a true professional; he is one of the best Chefs I have ever had the pleasure of working with/for. We discussed the value of mentorship, how he never just “does” anything, and how that experience has changed his approach to business long-term. From his food to his team, to the restaurant he physically works in, he does everything with thought and purpose.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
[00:00:00] Intro
[00:02:21] Chef Zack’s background/his leadership style
[00:08:25] Chef Zack explains how at the end of the day, Chefs are just problem solvers
[00:23:05] Insight into Chef Zack’s community work/partnerships
[00:36:32] Outro
[00:37:00] Rapid fire questions
RESOURCES
True Chesapeake Oyster Co on Instagram
True Chesapeake Oyster Company
Support the show and the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation* by purchasing this episodes special edition t-shirt and tote!
*$5 will be donated for every tote and/or shirt sold
TRANSCRIPT
Music fades in…
[00:00:00] Aubrey: Welcome to another episode of the Golden Approach podcast, a show where service professionals come together to figure out hospitality beyond old habits. I am so grateful that you're here for another episode. And today's is honestly super special to me. Zack Mills is our guest today, and he is one of the most genuinely kind and talented humans I have had the pleasure to know and work with. I think he's a true professional and a mentor to his staff. He's one of the best chefs I think I've actually had the pleasure of working with and for. And when this podcast was just an idea. I wrote a list of chefs that I hoped someday would be willing to come on, and a mini part of that list was titled “Big Wins,” and of course he was there. And not that I didn't think Chef would be on board with the idea of this show. But I know he's very intentional and strategic in everything he does, hence the title of the episode. And so I knew if he said yes, that would be the biggest honor and confirmation of what we were trying to accomplish. It was such a pleasure to get to learn more about
[00:01:00] Aubrey: his background and how he got where he is now. He really proves to me that when we do things with intention, from the way we design our restaurants to train our staff and how we're part of the community, everyone benefits. We discussed the value of mentorship. And how he never just does anything and how the experience has changed his approach to business long term. And even when chef isn't a hundred percent sure what he is doing, he understands the end goal and isn't afraid to experiment to get there. I'm so grateful for this conversation and I think you will be too. And a friendly reminder to stay after the credits for our rapid fire segment. Honestly, chef's actually felt almost like another mini episode. So you really do want to stick around for that. And my last little reminder for you, that all interview episodes are supporting a cause of choice. They're all chosen by the professional featured in their episode. So in this case, Chef Zack has chosen the Cystic Fibrosis Foundation. So I hope you'll head to our website and
[00:02:00] Aubrey: check out this episode's special edition merch. And I just can't thank you enough for your support. So let's get to the interview. I introduce to you Chef Zachary Mills…
Hi, Chef. Welcome to the show. I'm so very grateful for you doing this today.
[00:02:17] Zack: Thanks for having me on. I'm happy to be here. Thanks for taking over. I appreciate it.
Chef Zack’s background/his leadership style
[00:02:21] Aubrey: So we're going to just start at the beginning, can you give us some insight into who you are so people get to know you a little better?
[00:02:28] Zack: Uh, sure. Yeah, my name is Zack Mills, I am the executive chef and corporate chef for Chef Shucker Farmer, Inc. which is a small restaurant group comprising of True Chesapeake Oyster Company, which is both an oyster farm and a fine dining restaurant. And we also have The Local Oyster, which is a fast, casual concept.
[00:02:51] Aubrey: Wow. You always had your hands full of a lot of stuff and nothing has changed. That's awesome.
[00:02:55] Zack: No, I'm, I'm insane, but I like to work.
[00:02:58] Aubrey: I understand the feeling. So for people getting to know you, can you tell us about your journey as a person or as a professional that got you here? Like what steps did you take? Tell us a little bit.
[00:03:11] Zack: Yeah, so I, mine is a roundabout situation, was not exactly a direct route, so I grew up in Maryland, I grew up in Stevensville, which is a small town outside of Annapolis, I've been cooking my whole life, my family, I come from a pretty Italian background, on my father's side, and I just grew up cooking all the time, I went to college, And thought a traditional route was going to be my way. I really just went to college to play lacrosse. I didn't think about those parts that much. And then I had a rash of knee injuries that kind of ended that part of my life. And I ended up finishing college, but about halfway through, I just, something kind of clicked. I took a year off of college and was working in the restaurant industry. Actually, as front of house, I was the world's worst server. Just awful. People scare me.
[00:04:00] Aubrey: Well, it's still a good experience to have.
[00:04:04] Zack: No question, and I can tell my front of house that I was a front of house person, so, that's a thing. But, uh, but yeah, no, I was, I was working at Raw Bar, which is ironic, all these years later, and that I was a server and a food runner. And so now the restaurant industry just as a whole kind of got into me. So yeah, I promised my parents if I got through college, they would help with culinary school. Packed my bags, went straight to New York City, went to culinary school and graduate in 26, so I had a little, was a little more mature would be the word when I got into the actual culinary industry. And yeah, never looked back since.
[00:04:36] Aubrey: Nice. I think that helps though. I mean, I also went to college first before I. Went to culinary school. And I think it kind of helps drive you a little bit. You're a little more, you want to be there. You know, you want to be there. You made that choice. So that makes sense that that would work out so well for you.
[00:04:52] Zack: Absolutely. No question. And I I'd like to say I learned from previous mistakes as a younger person. Put that into my work ethic. For the culinary world and I saw all the things that I missed my missteps throughout lacrosse and school and just decided when this is what I wanted to do and I was going to put 100% into it at all times.
[00:05:14] Aubrey: Thank you. Thank you for sharing this, just to kind of dig in a little deeper into True Chesapeake because from my experience, knowing you at other companies. You have obviously done very high level positions, but correct me if I'm wrong, this is the first time you've ever been like a true partner. Owner in a project, correct?
[00:05:35] Zack: Yes. Yeah. Before this, I spent most of my time, I spent 10 years with both Four Seasons Hotels and Resorts, as well as Michael Mina's restaurant group and Chef Mina pretty much acted as well as my two corporate chefs acted as my mentors and bosses for, for 10 years, bringing me up. And then when it was time. Just the universe came together and yeah, I'm now owning and operating a small restaurant group.
[00:05:59] Aubrey: Do you feel like having that direct mentorship from such accomplished business owners and chefs like Michael Mina has accomplished and Four Seasons as well, in your ability to take on a project as in depth as you are, because I mean, you're not just running a restaurant, like you said, you have so many things going on.
[00:06:21] Zack: Hands down. I think. The combination of just how I came up from a mid level cook to a sous chef to a junior sous chef to a senior sous chef to a corporate sous chef to the head chef of Wit and Wisdom, Michael and my two corporate chefs, David Varley and Adam Sobel, they brought me up and they taught me everything and I couldn't be where I am today without them. Those three men mentoring and really just putting a lot of effort into teaching me how to do things the right way. And I will always feel like I'm trying to catch them. And I think that's a nice motivation. Both my corporate chefs were actually my age when I worked for them. And both of them had Michelin stars in their
[00:07:00] Zack: 20s, their, like, mid to late 20s. And yeah, they were big deals. And I still, to this day, talk to them and ask for advice. And they are a motivating factor for me to always try to reach for.
[00:07:14] Aubrey: That's amazing. Having done the pleasure to work with you and to stay in touch all these years later, I feel like that makes sense because you've been one of the most hands on, patient, mentoring chefs I think I've ever worked with in a kitchen. And that's, I think, another reason why I see people stay with you as long as they do. So, I think it's amazing that you carry that through to the next generation of chefs that you lead.
[00:07:42] Zack: I appreciate that. Thank you. That's, that means a lot to me. I think I've always tried to make sure that everybody understands that when I sit, eat cooking and the restaurant world is a family, it's not just lip service. You take care of your family, family comes first. And I think this job is hard enough without negativity. So this being such a hard job, being positive in the environment, we all do this because we love this and
[00:08:00] Zack: the hospitality industry. So I think the one thing people forget is like the whole part of this job is to be friendly and kind to people. So that should translate to all parts of the restaurant industry. And that's just, at the end of the day, that's something that sometimes we forget and we need to remind ourselves of.
Chef Zack explains how at the end of the day, Chefs are just problem solvers
[00:08:25] Aubrey: I couldn't have said it better myself, and that's exactly why we're having this conversation, because we're like, how do we help people start reconnecting with that internal hospitality and not just the external? And I'm just curious, do you have any advice while we're on this topic of how you're able to lead your team in that way or things that you were taught by your mentors to help maintain that environment in the kitchen?
[00:08:53] Zack: Yeah, I think it's just, we just have to remind ourselves that we do this because
[00:09:00] Zack: we love what we do. And I don't, there's no point and it's a waste of my energy to get angry about something I can't fix. And chefs are most of the time problem solvers in the first place. I mean, that's really all we're doing once you get to that highest level is, is there's always things going wrong. It's like, how do you quickly and efficiently fix them for the best interest of the restaurant. And, it's a goofy thing to say because I obviously love what I do with every part of my soul, but at the end of the day, it's just food.
[00:09:30] Aubrey: I completely agree. And now you're making me kind of wonder, I was like, I always say that. Did I subconsciously pick that up in your kitchen and I didn't even realize? Because I'll always be like, guys, like... We're not doctors, we're not saving lives here, like, I made some cookies, you know?
[00:09:44] Zack: Absolutely. It's just food. We're just people. My job does not cause life or death for anybody. My job does not keep people in or out of prison. My job does not, my job is not defending this country. My job is just to cook food for humans. And I love what I do. And to take it too seriously and to get too salty about something, like, that's just a waste of energy.
[00:10:06] Aubrey: I feel like I'm getting a little off topic, so bear with me here, but you're just giving me so much to go off of that for those who can't see your kitchen, who aren't in Baltimore, you have an open kitchen. Did you do that on purpose? Like, since you are part of ownership, did you do that on purpose so that way you and your team could feel better connected? To the people?
[00:10:27] Zack: Exactly. No question. Exactly. Exactly. And I love it. It's one of those things. I get to look out every night, watch people stoked about eating the food, and I've watched our cooks start taking note of that. And they're looking out like, wow, this is really cool. Stop every now and then and look and watch what your hard work is doing for somebody else. And at the end of the day. That's really the job. It's feeding people and hoping that they're happy with the food.
[00:10:53] Aubrey: Because I think that commonly we forget why we're doing what we're doing.
[00:10:57] Zack: I've worked in both open and closed kitchens, and there's a lot of more pluses to the open kitchen, I feel. One is the connection with the guests. Two, it's part of the show. So it's fun for people to see. Three, I'm a control freak. And so for me to be able to like, see what's going on, like being able to like, be like, yo, that table's pork thrown water three times or this or that, or just like paying attention to somebody looking not happy with their food or vice versa. All of those things go into play with an open kitchen and I joked that I would love to have closed kitchens because it's just being like the front and center part of the show is not really my gig. I got into cooking so I could hide in the kitchen and cook food, but at the same time, there's just it's for all of those reasons and the connection and just the energy that an open kitchen brings, I'm always going to be pro open kitchen as opposed to closed.
[00:11:49] Aubrey: That's awesome. You know, I hadn't really ever given it enough thought. I haven't gotten to work in very many open kitchens, but I, I love that. And I'm going to put a little more thought into my appreciation of them going forward.
[00:12:01] Zack: Yeah, I think Wit and Wisdom, the restaurant that you and I worked together at, was open. And then became like closed and then semi closed. So I saw three different transitions of that restaurant kitchen. And I think a lot of it, I got from that and just learning the difference and frankly, how I expedited differently. Based on how close guests were to me and things like that. It was definitely a good lesson that I learned throughout that process.
[00:12:28] Aubrey: And so kind of going forward with that, since you are so driven by connection of guests and employees and feeling as supportive and welcoming hospitable to both ends of the spectrum. Do you feel like that is one of the reasons why you've been such a leader here in Baltimore as a restaurant group? Do you feel like that is your driving force or is there some other reason?
[00:12:53] Zack: Well, everything we've done, we've been doing for ourselves.
[00:13:00] Zack: We never wanted to be a spokesperson or say that this is how all restaurants should do. We make the decisions for us and we didn't come to any of them lightly. And we saw that first shutdown during the pandemic. And that first shutdown happened five months into this restaurant being open directly after getting two pretty big, like, accolades. We just, we wanted this to be over as quickly as possible. And we, as an ownership group, myself and my partners, Nick and Patrick, as well as our, our investors, we all sat down and just kept reviewing everything and seeing what's going on. Making calls based on what we felt and what our staff felt was was going to be the best way to do things and we were pulling our staff the whole way we still ask their opinions and we just think that we did everything to try to keep everybody safe and we felt that our best chance of guests coming in through these surges and everything else was to do what we did it's like we're trying to show that If we do things the right way, the restaurant is a perfectly safe place
[00:14:00] Zack: to be, and we will continue to do that.
[00:14:06] Aubrey: And I think, to your point of starting with your team, I think unfortunately too many times these days, just as a society and a culture, we focus, like, again, very much on the external. And the goal driven, the bottom line driven, things like that. And we lose track of what's in front of us directly, who's working here, what environment are they in, what quality of whatever they have in front of them and so forth. So I think it's smart that that's where you start and it's obviously paid off because your restaurant has continued, despite these ups and downs, from my perspective, at least, to be continually successful.
[00:14:44] Zack: No question. And I think you've got to be checking in with your staff. You've got to be making sure that they feel safe and okay. And I just remember seeing early on in COVID, like a little fear in people's eyes, especially servers and people that are guest facing. And again, it goes back to treating everybody like family. If they're not comfortable,
[00:15:00] Zack: then I need to figure out, well, what I, what can I do to help? And it is the way we've always approached things. And I do think it helped. I do. I think there's a million different factors to why we're still here. And we're just blessed that enough of those factors has gone in our favor thus far.
[00:15:22] Aubrey: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's all a guessing game in life, right? But I think what you're saying is true. If you focus on what's right in front of you and making sure that the people in your family, your team are comfortable, that the rest will kind of fall into place.
[00:15:38] Zack: There's only so much we can control.
[00:15:40] Aubrey: Absolutely. Do you feel like, or are you willing to speak to any advice on if you have received any pushback from the outside community or even your staff members? I don't mean to call anyone out, just as an overall concept, when you made the tough choices. Do you have any advice for people on how that went for you and how maybe they can approach those scenarios?
[00:16:06] Zack: Yeah, for us, yes, there was pushback. We got some emails, some voicemails, some DMs, and all the good stuff. We just blocked it out and kept moving. We made a decision. We were going to stick to that decision, and our staff felt it was the right decision, and That's really all that mattered to us. So it was really just, it's the restaurant industry and we're already used to. Like reviews, you've got your people that are super lovely to you. And then you've got your two kind of sides of negative reviews. You've got ones that are very helpful, like that are like, this is why I didn't have a good time. And those are very constructive and things that we could build off of and teachable moments and all that stuff. And then there's the people that just want to be a jerk. And there's people that just, you know, it happens every week as a chef. I'm reading something neat about my food pretty much every week. I'm fortunate that most of the time it's much more positive than negative, but I still read something saying I should be fired at least
[00:17:00] Zack: once a year and all these other things, it ties into people then talking about our protocols and things like that. You have to have a thick skin in this industry in the first place, and you have to embrace the positive and kind of push out the negative and just not really even pay it any mind. And I think both things tie together pretty well.
[00:17:25] Aubrey: Yeah. I mean, definitely easier said than done, but I can't agree more. So…
[00:17:28] Zack: No question. Absolutely. And same deal. There's people who have sent me messages about our protocols and same with nasty things about food. There's definitely things that like are going to keep me up at night or I'm going to drink that extra beer after service. It is what it is. It's, this is the life and this is what we chose. And none of that public, the public opinion of you is never going away. That's just how it is. So you just got to do your best and be kind to people and hope that energy returns to you.
[00:17:57] Aubrey: I completely agree. As we've been working on this project and this podcast, you know, we've been very conscientious that we can do all we can try to do. But at the end of the end of the day, excuse me, there are just some parts of the industry that are what they are, right? We are trying to make them better. We're trying to handle them better, but it is what it is. And that is just one of them.
[00:18:17] Zack: Exactly, of course, yes, that is one of them and it's not going away and it's, you could, we can speak out as much as we can and try to ask people to stay constructive, even when upset, but that's just not, human nature is what it is, there's, everybody's got a different opinion, everybody's got their own stuff going on, it's just, you just take everything in stride.
[00:18:37] Aubrey: Absolutely, taking this back internally, making these decisions, and, being so strategic for your business, including your team members. With staffing having been such an issue throughout COVID, do you feel like because you made the choices about vaccine statuses and all those things, do you feel like that helped with your staffing retention, that they felt more compelled to stay where they were because of the support provided? Or did that really not play a part?
[00:19:09] Zack: Yeah, I do think I have some people that have truly had staff members said, we appreciate you guys sticking to your guns and not wavering because we've dealt with some, a couple of salty people in the restaurant. And I think we've proven over and over that we don't just talk.
[00:19:24] Zack: We're trying to show that. What we'd say we're going to do, we're going to do, and what we'd say we're not going to do, we're not going to do. So that definitely helps, but it was a tough two years finding people and retaining good people. But the ones we have right now have been lovely. And the one good thing I would say is it's forced us to think outside of the box when it comes to staffing. And we're creating some like hybrid positions and how to make sure that everybody are as productive as possible and making as much money as they can. And those are the two things that I think have helped. So yeah, it's been an interesting ride.
[00:20:01] Aubrey: Would you feel comfortable sharing with us an example of one of these hybrid positions that you've created?
[00:20:06] Zack: Absolutely. So our hosts, are now hosts and what we call service support. So as opposed to traditional bussers or food runners, we tend to have three to four hosts on at a time. One of them still an anchor and hangs out the host and most of the time, but they're all doing a hybrid role to get into the tip pool, make some more money and it keeps them busy, right? In some settings, I can understand where there's like a bunch of hosts and like you pay them just to host. I get that. For our restaurant, we understood that it's better for them and for the operation. They're showing guests their seat, but then, okay, there's food in the window. Go run the food. That's been probably the main one that we played with and we think is working. And that they can become servers and make even more money.
[00:20:50] Aubrey: I think that's fantastic. I agree because having worked that position, it also makes you more motivated because the time is going faster and you're busier and you feel more a part of the team and all those things. So I would imagine it all works out.
[00:21:05] Zack: Yeah, and that's the thing. I've seen kind of progression, people that have been in that position. I've seen a faster progression in knowledge and restaurant savvy than I've seen before. And that's really neat. I've, we've already had a couple of people that have been here for six months and they're already like ready to serve and they just haven't, they weren't even in the restaurant industry before this and so that's pretty remarkable.
[00:21:28] Aubrey: That is remarkable. It's actually, it's sort of like you've created like a pay to be trained program in a way. Like, yes, you're a host, and it's like, you're participating in more, so you get tipped more, but you're also getting cross trained. So like you said, you can be promoted into a server when the position arises. So it's like, I would have loved if someone, you know, throughout my career had made sure I was kind of ready for the next role immediately when the position opened, rather than, okay, you know, you've done this thing. Now, like you're starting to think you want to
[00:22:00] Aubrey: move, so what do we have to do to get you there? You really made that such a more seamless process.
[00:22:06] Zack: Yeah, but frankly, we just thought it was a good idea to make the position, and then all of a sudden we watched it, like, transform. But that's the neat thing about ultimately, like, having, kind of, the final say in figuring things out. I mean, I've had dumb ideas that don't work all the time. This one works. It's pretty cool that, like, my partners and I were like, alright, here's what we're gonna do. And next year later, you're like, Oh, that was a really good idea. Good for us. Like, we figured it out. We've had a million awful ones, but that was a really good idea.
[00:22:35] Aubrey: Well, if that isn't life, then I don't know what is, but it is definitely nice when it pays off.
[00:22:40] Zack: Exactly. Hey, you take the W's when they come.
[00:22:43] Aubrey: Yeah, truly, truly. You had also told me when we spoke prior to this interview about some interesting creative abilities to go beyond the traditional staffing. In a sense, you are working with like, more food banks and things like that, right? To be able to kind of find new sources of staffing into the industry.
Insight into Chef Zack’s community work/partnerships
[00:23:05] Zack: Hands down. When it comes down to it, Jose Andres started the whole thing with DC Central Kitchen and treating people from all walks of life to cook. And then them in turn cooking for people who need to be fed and then then it just builds up from there. We're very lucky that in Baltimore, the Maryland food bank has its own culinary program. It's only a three month program. It's bringing in people who, who want to learn how to cook. And we also partnered with Paul's Place, which has its own restaurant that had just built during COVID called Groundwork Kitchen. Uh, Groundwork Kitchen is training staff the same kind of way, and they're actually training them in an actual restaurant, in an actual kitchen, with live cooks and chefs, so we're working on some kind of program with them and see if we can get an internship thing going on. But looking at those kind of programs has really been
[00:24:00] Zack: super helpful. We've had two cooks, they're my dynamic duo. We've had a couple come and go, but those have been my like two. And I've just been watching them grow and one of them went to a traditional culinary school and the other one went to the Maryland food bank school and just watching them both together, it, it, it brings tear to my eye.
[00:24:14] Aubrey: I think that that's absolutely fantastic. Did you have to do anything to set up that relationship to be able to work with them? Or did you just contact them and they kind of refer people to you?
[00:24:28] Zack: So we started with food bank. We do a lot of charity work and we, even through COVID, we tried to do as much as we can. And the food bank was suggested, I've been working with No Kid Hungry for years and years, and I'm a huge exponent of everything Share Our Strength that No Kid Hungry does. And when COVID first hit, I reached out to my friends at No Kid Hungry. I said, I need a bunch of food to donate. Where do I donate it? They said, go to the Maryland Food Bank. Once the Maryland Food Bank, we donated food to them both times during both our closures. And then we started talking to
[00:25:00] Zack: them from there about doing just a quick fundraiser in the restaurant where I can't even remember, I think it was like 15% 10% of our proceeds for for the night, we're going to go to the Maryland food bank and we got to talking and the representative that came that night said, Did you know that we have a culinary school? And we said, No. They sent us some information and my partner Nick, who is our oyster shocker extraordinaire, he and I went and did a shucking and oyster cooking demo for the culinary school. And that's where it all came together and then all of a sudden I asked for resumes. Read through the resumes. There was a couple of people that just, you could see the light in their eye when they were, when we were teaching them stuff. And I was like, all right, let's talk to these people. And I was fortunate to get one of them. And so that's how that started. Paul's place. We are fortunate that one of our investors is also does a lot of charity work and he put us in touch with them. And we've
[00:26:00] Zack: now done, my partner, Nick went and did a demo there. And then I went and went through and watched their classes a couple of weeks ago. And we're actually, the cool thing about that is because it's such a new program. They're actually asking for my opinion on their curriculum, curriculum, and we're going to interview people and give. The school feedback on how they interview and try to help become a better school and in turn, hopefully get us some really quality people that really want to do this for the rest of their lives.
[00:26:30] Aubrey: Just more proof that if you do good, good things find you. I love that. Again, since I do know you, and have known you for a couple years, that you've always been very hands on, like you said, with charity work, and I think that it's very clear that that is something that drives you and has worked well in that cycle of not just for staffing, but like you said, the people that you've met along the way and who you've been able to connect with.
[00:26:56] Zack: And so we're really lucky that we've fallen into that one because of our investors, but we were always looking and because I think we're lucky enough that we're doing enough, enough around town from a charity standpoint, that people put us in touch with a lot of great people doing a lot of great things in this city. We're trying our best. That's all we can do. We're just trying our best.
[00:27:15] Aubrey: Our industry is all about networking and I just think more people should be more creative in where they go to network. So I think that that's wonderful.
[00:27:25] Zack: Absolutely. It's, we're very fortunate. We really are. And we've always, we've always been big into making sure that whatever we're doing to help the city and we're lucky that we've made a lot of really great friends throughout that process.
[00:27:37] Aubrey: Yeah. So one of the last big things that I really wanted to touch on with you in this conversation that it really relates to all the things you've talked about so far, taking care of your team, being creative in your staffing and hiring and all of that. You had mentioned to me some of the tactics that you guys have created to start closing the gap between front of house and back of house.
[00:28:00] Aubrey: And you touched on like your hybrid positions and things like that. Can you kind of explain to us if there's any hybrid positions you have sort of between front and back or how have you started to bridge that gap?
[00:28:11] Zack: So we've got two different kind of methods to this. One we use every day and one is more of a when we can or need to. First, and this took us a while to get figured out because we had to check with lawyers and everything else and make sure we were doing something legal, because you'd be surprised on what is technically legal and illegal in the restaurant industry as far as pay and tips and everything else. What we did is we started a 2% kitchen appreciation fee on all checks. Now a guest is free to opt out of it. We've got a little, uh, spiel on the bottom of our menus. But 2% of every dollar that walks into this restaurant gets put into a, not necessarily a pool, but like the cooks each get part of that money and that kitchen appreciation fee goes directly to them. There is no like middle
[00:29:00] Zack: ground. There is no anything, but all back house, both cooks and dishwashers, prep cooks. If you are an hourly employee. Back in that kitchen. You're getting a share of this 2% kitchen appreciation fit has helped immensely. It's such a little dollar amount to a guest, but over the course of a week, that adds up to three more dollars an hour on average. And that's a big deal because we're a small little restaurant. We can't pay like hotel money. We can't do a lot of those things. So this was our way of making sure our staff in the back is getting taken care of. Legally and efficiently. That was something that was super important to us. And we're really happy that we have been able to enact it. And again, the guests can cross it out and say, no, it doesn't happen very often. So we're, we're very lucky about that. And then our shucker position in all of our restaurants, our shucker is actually front of house position because they are guest facing all of our raw bars are like built into the bars.
[00:30:00] Zack: So they are a tipped position as well. They're tipped out on how many oysters they shop. What we can do is we can do a cook shucker hybrid where the cook spends a day out in the shucker booth on a busy night and one bones up on another culinary skill. And two, gets in the tip pool for the evening and a busy night can make a good chunk of change there too. So both things we do also incentivizes people to be busy because the busier this restaurant is, the more money they're getting. So it's almost like a share of the restaurant. There's been talk about people, staff members getting ownership of a restaurant. This was our kind of version of that. To give them a thought where, Oh, we're making some money tonight, even in the kitchen. Cause servers always get that. They're getting busy, good servers. You can see it. They're like, Oh yeah, I'm making money tonight. Now you get to see the light in their eyes when they're getting their butts kicked in the kitchen too. Cause they're like, I am getting my butt handed to me, but you know what? Paycheck's going to be better. And I can afford that next thing I want to go buy or something like that. So those are where we went with it. And it's worked out really well.
[00:31:03] Aubrey: I think that's fantastic. The more I think about like all the nights that I got my. You know what handed to me and it's like, it's not that I wasn't excited to do what I do. It's like you said, we do what we do because we love it. But unfortunately there is a level and I don't, I'm not calling anyone else specifically just as a culture of this business, there is a level of exploitation of passion. And I think that you have found a strategic smart way to not exploit the passion to drive the passion that. I want to do this because I learn more, I get paid more, and I can grow more by working here.
[00:31:43] Zack: Absolutely. Yeah. We, we like it. We're again, that was another life. All right. We did good. And again, it took us, so we shut this restaurant down for a second time on our own because business was so poor, they were closed for about four months. And we took
[00:32:00] Zack: that time. We would take that time off myself and my two partners literally dug it and said, we are going to reopen this restaurant better than we, we left it. And that was part of it. And part of it was that kitchen appreciation fee. Part of it became the getting in with the Maryland food bank culinary school. All those things we really wanted to make sure we rewrote most of our like standard operating procedures in our book. We made sure that all the things that we wanted to get done to make this place better, when we reopened, we were going to get done and we're really proud of the work we put in last winter and we wanted to make sure that it showed.
[00:32:33] Aubrey: Yeah, it's amazing how fluid and creative you and your partner seem to be. That it's never just, okay, whatever's working, we just stay. It seems like it's just, even if it's working, you're constantly reevaluating.
[00:32:48] Zack: And that's the thing, and the way I put it to the staff to say is, we don't just do anything. If you're just doing something, what's the point of, if you're not doing something with a hundred percent effort, a hundred percent passion, that's what I want, because that's what I, that's how I live. And I'm very lucky to have two partners, investors, people, we're all surrounded by like minded people that want
[00:33:00] Zack: to be the best at what we do, regardless of what we're doing and want to be thoughtful about the process as a whole. And I'm also lucky that both my partners, they think outside the box. A and, you always ask the why. And that's when our conversations start. It's why is this a status quo and why do we care? That's, and then it just goes from there. I'm just really lucky that the universe put us all together at the start of what hopefully is the rest of our careers together, doing this and continuing to try to get better each and every day.
[00:33:44] Aubrey: That's amazing. So as we kind of close up, what are some things that you are looking forward to personally or the company is looking forward to as we move past COVID and all that fun stuff?
[00:33:55] Zack: I just want to like truly get back at it.
[00:34:00] Zack: And we're starting to see, and we only, we opened this restaurant five months before the pandemic. And we had such a great momentum going on as far as just like, not like it's not about awards, but it's nice to get them. And we were getting them. I always set out for this to be, even though this isn't truly a fine dining restaurant. I've always set out for this to be the best restaurant in Baltimore, or at least in the conversation. And I'm looking forward to dropping the crutches that have been the pandemic and really just going after it. That's the biggest thing is we, for the last two years, we've said. This isn't the best we can do, but it COVID, uh, all of that, I'm just excited to drop those crutches and say, it's time to be paid attention to. It's time to be in every award conversation and it's time to really go. And, and then, yeah, we, we have two restaurants that we planned on opening way earlier. That's always an exciting time. I've spent a lot of my career opening restaurants. I've, I can't even count how many restaurants I've actually opened as far as Four Seasons
[00:35:00] Zack: and Mina Group. As well as for this company. So that's exciting. It's exciting to get it, get a new staff. Every restaurant's different. You think you know your clientele. You don't know your clientele until you open the door. So it's nice to figure out together. Okay, here's our menu to start, but how is that going to evolve based on the people that are walking in a door every day? And I don't know, something about working like 18 hours a day to get restaurants open is this weird, psychotic joy to me. That's all you're focused on, right? Everything else goes away. It's just this, like, you got to get this open and there's no excuses. People are going to walk in the door with expectations, so. That to me is a lot of fun because I can shut my brain off a little bit and just be like no, it's time to go, let's get in the kitchen, let's start cooking, let's hope that there's wine out the door, and let's go from there. So, this is, busier nights in a restaurant are my happiest nights. When I'm getting annihilated and I'm like, wow, I'm gonna be sore tomorrow. That's awesome, I'm just really looking forward to all of it. Yeah.
[00:36:00] Aubrey: I completely understand, there's nothing like the adrenaline rush when you get in that sweet spot, and everyone is just doing it. When the food is going out and the people are happy, it's like, it's a high in a way, right? But, yeah, I completely agree.
[00:36:13] Zack: There's nothing better. There's nothing better.
[00:36:20] Aubrey: So, with that, I mean, thank you, chef, for a wonderful conversation. I'm going to let you go, do all the wonderful things you're going to continue to do, and hopefully we'll have you back again another time.
[00:36:27] Zack: Okay. Alrighty.
Outro
[00:36:32] Aubrey: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Golden Approach podcast. If you enjoyed listening, I would super appreciate it if you would share us with a friend or maybe give us a follow, that's cool too. And if you want to hang out with us some more, follow on Instagram @goldenapproachpod, or check out our website, goldenapproachpodcast.com for more details; such as transcripts and reference links from today's episode. Until next time, though, remember, everything's going to be just fine. Alright, so we have one last surprise for you. See my little deli cup, because, in the
Rapid fire questions
[00:37:00] Aubrey: industry. We're going to do a little rapid fire. It's only four questions. And so the way it's working is, we have the same questions for everyone, but we pick from a deli cup.
[00:37:16] Zack: Got it. Got it.
[00:37:20] Aubrey: So, what are three songs in your pre service pump out playlist? What gets you going?
[00:37:26] Zack: Here's the tough thing, because I let my kitchen choose most of the time. Last week was there was a day where that was a mistake, but it took me back to college.
[00:37:35] Zack: Let's see, pump up playlist. Let's see anything from Led Zeppelin, literally anything. And then probably Guns N Roses, Welcome to the Jungle. And that what was that song? What did we do? So when we opened up Handlebar at the Four Seasons Jackson Hole, we would jam to Eye of the Tiger right before, like, and it was like, it became a thing. We, like,
[00:38:00] Zack: we used to have a no in the kitchen rule in the hotels, but we, that threw out the window when you're doing a thousand skiers for lunch. So yeah, Eye of the Tiger. That was, that's actually like special memories to that one.
[00:38:08] Aubrey: That's amazing. Those are very good places that you came up with very quickly, I'm impressed.
[00:38:13] Zack: We listen to a lot of music at this restaurant. It's very eclectic.
[00:38:16] Aubrey: Okay, so number two, because we hate the question, what's your favorite thing to make as chefs? Personally, I think so. So what is your favorite thing to eat or the favorite meal you've ever experienced?
[00:38:28] Zack: Okay, that's tough. Favorite thing to eat, again, it goes back to the Italian roots, will always and forever be pasta. And of any kind, really. I don't know that I've met a pasta that I don't like. That would be a thing. And then, best dining experience, I'm very fortunate that I've been able to go down to the Inn at Little Washington once a year for pretty much my entire life because it's my Mother's birthday present every year. And I've been going since I was like, I've been going since I was like 14. And I haven't missed many. It happens from time to time, but most of the time I go. I really, truly don't think there's a better restaurant in the world.
[00:39:03] Aubrey: Amazing. I have not had the, I've known people who've worked there, but I have not had the fortune of eating there yet myself. So…
[00:39:09] Zack: Yeah, it's a true services. It's the greatest service experience of my life. Every time. Hands down.
[00:39:16] Aubrey: Well, it's getting moved to the very top of the list.
[00:39:18] Zack: It should.
[00:39:20] Aubrey: Okay. What does success mean to you?
[00:39:23] Zack: That's a really tough question. I guess I am super fortunate. That I guess I can consider my career successful since I hit Baltimore and I'm going on in April, it will be nine years as an executive chef and 10 years total cooking in Baltimore and I will consider that this last 10 years to be pretty successful as far as being able to put my own food out on my own terms and have people, more people, uh, rather than not dig it, and uh, so my Mom started a scrapbook, every paper, every newspaper clip it, like screenshots from all the morning shows, and then chopped, and it's just all this stuff, and it's two books that are like this thick.
[00:40:06] Aubrey: Wow, that's amazing!
[00:40:08] Zack: And she does it for me, but she's doing it for her. And I think that to me is like, that's okay. I did, I'm doing okay. Because she's just watching her do that and be super proud. I would say that's, that's that. And then my goal is just to make sure my success. Does it stop with me? I keep telling the chef, the cooks, and anyone I work with is, my goal, when I retire, when I'm done with this, which probably will be never, but if that ever happened, I'm not gonna look back on like, the awards, and whatever else, what I'm gonna look at is what humans went through my kitchen that now are me. Or hopefully more successful than me. And I want a wall of fame. I want people with James Beard awards around their necks, with Michelin stars, with Chef of the Year awards, or just people that opened their own little place
[00:41:00] Zack: and are super stoked for the rest of their lives. I'm here to make chefs. I think that was, my mentors put that into me, and now I'm trying to pass that down and be able to be super proud at the end of the day to say that somebody calls me a mentor that is super successful. That will be the ultimate success. That's, that'll be the, okay, I can hang this up when I've got these people out in the world putting out beautiful food and giving me any form of credit to their culinary crowd. That will be the most ultimate success for me.
[00:41:32] Aubrey: That's beautiful. Oh my God. Yes, Chef. Well, I feel like that should be the end, but we are supposed to do one more question. So I guess I'm going to do that. Whew, I don't know how we top that. Okay, so what chef's voice sticks with you in your head, and what do they say?
[00:41:48] Zack: Oh god, I can't say a lot of those words on podcast. It's all three of my mentors, Michael Mina, David Varley, Adam Sobel. I hear all of them at different points, and it really depends on which one I'm trying to channel
[00:42:00] Zack: at the time. Cause there's certain circumstances where I'm like, what would Michael do? Or what would D.V. do? Or what would Sobel do? And all three of them are such wildly talented human beings, but they also had like different parts of them that I tried to emulate. And, and so here all of them worked directly for Varley the most. So I hear his voice more and it's usually something pretty funny, but again, not something I could say, but it'd be hilarious. And then Michael, Michael was a second father to me and we had a lot of heart to hearts and I just, I will always picture his voice and you did a lot of whispering in your ear. Not like a bad way, but like he would text you. And he'd be right here, and he'd just be like, chef. And he'd just give you a little piece of visor. Be like, do you know what I see right now? Do you see what I see? And I just, those little things kind of stick with me.
[00:42:47] Aubrey: I think that's beautiful. And I had very limited experience with Michael Mina personally, despite working in his restaurant. He only came one time while I was there. But I'll never forget, I was coming out of the walk in. We had the terrible, I hate that, those plastic curtains. Yeah, and my speed raft got caught.
[00:43:06] Zack: Oh yeah, the curtains.
[00:43:07] Aubrey: And like, three sheet trays went down because it was anchored in to the walk in, so it was just out. And this was my first job in the culinary world after culinary school. And there was Michael Moolah, mid-conversation to the team, three sheet trays just on the floor, everything's everywhere. Yeah. And I'm like, this is how you get fired. Like, this is And he was so calm. He was just like, Are you okay? And I was like, that's it? Am I okay? That's the whole, That's it? And he was just, And like he said, it was just like, The quietest chef voice I think I'd ever heard in my life. I just could not get over it, and I was so grateful. So, from my very limited experience with him, I can imagine what an amazing mentor he was. Because he did, he just would say like, Blah blah blah. So calmly. It was remarkable.
Music fades in…
[00:43:57] Zack: Right. When people care, Michael fed off of that. And I think I've taken that with me, is the biggest problem with my chefs was when people showed that they didn't really care. And but when people cared, man, all three of them, Michael, he would put his all into it. And he just, and I've always taken that.
[00:44:19] Aubrey: Well, it shows from someone who's worked. Under you and for people who worked with you. So, all right. Thanks, chef.
[00:44:24] Zack: Absolutely. I appreciate it. And I really, I appreciate what you guys are doing and I'm super proud of you guys. Thank you.
[00:44:30] Aubrey: I really, you hit me right here, chef.
[00:44:33] Zack: It's good to see you.
Music fades out…
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