Nature + Nurture with Monica Amtower
EP 015: Monica Amtower
Specialty Food Sales Executive, former Pastry Chef
This episode is all about the power of nature and nurture in shaping who we are and where our priorities lie both personally and professionally. Monica shares her experience from her early passion for pastry to balancing her career in specialty food sales and her professional passions and ambitions with her new venture into motherhood. Monica is someone who has a palpable motivation and drive for success that she attributes to not only her innate personality but also to an early and recurring lesson from her mother about the importance and impact of a strong work ethic.
EPISODE OUTLINE
[00:01:21] Nature versus Nurture
[00:02:26] Secret surprises
[00:04:00] Who is Monica Amtower?
[00:13:47] Read the room
[00:20:13] Finding your motivation and perspective with the help of a good team
[00:28:17] Hindsight’s 20/20 and allergy season is not forever
[00:34:02] What’s better than one incredibly demanding (and rewarding) job? TWO incredibly demanding (and rewarding) jobs!
[00:42:30] Rapid-fire Q&A
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TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Monica: When you meet people that you don't understand it's like, in that moment, you don't sit there and hyper-analyze them and say “Oh, you must've had X, Y, and Z happen to you, which is why you are this way”, but if you take that time to just look at people from a different lens and try to understand them, then you're able to get the most out of people and in turn, that gives you a bunch more stepping blocks, to get to where you need to go too. It's like, you're only going to get far if you get the most and best out of people.
Music fades in…
[00:00:34] Aubrey: Welcome to the Golden Approach Podcast. If you've listened before, it means the world to have you back. And if you're new here, I have no doubt you'll find some helpful little nuggets, but first let me give you some super brief context about myself and the show. I'm Aubrey. I've spent the majority of my career as a pastry chef in elite companies with lots of stars diamonds James Beard nods, wins, and so forth. And while I love all things food and beverage, what really ties it together for me is the art of
[00:01:00] Aubrey: caring for others. On this show, I'm excited to share all I've come to learn and introduce you to other talented and insightful professionals, F& B or not, who are passionate about making the world a better place. I have full confidence that together we can cultivate growth and meaningful connections as individuals, communities, and in any form of workplace. So without further ado, let's get to the good stuff
Music transitions…
[00:01:21] Aubrey: Welcome, welcome. Out of curiosity, how many of you remember that concept nature versus nurture? Maybe you heard of it at some point. I don't know, somewhere. But on this episode, my guest Monica and I really dug into this concept. We reflected on our own nature plus nurture personally and professionally and how it's influenced us over the years. Monica and I met actually at my very first job out of culinary school over 10 years ago. So we've really seen each other's growth firsthand. And we chatted about how the
[00:02:00] Aubrey: experiences in childhood influenced us personally and professionally. And then how we both learned to use this self reflection to not only be better team members, but just better people, generally speaking. Last thing, before we get into it, a friendly reminder to stay till the very end to hear our fun rapid-fire segment. But, without further ado, I'm happy to introduce you to Monica Amtower.
Music transitions….
[00:02:26] Aubrey: Hi there. A few quick housekeeping notes. First, we have some super fun things in the works that I have been teasing here and there over the last few months, and they are almost ready to launch. So if you want to stay in the know and get all the details, maybe hang out with us more often, be sure to subscribe to our email list by heading to our website, goldenapproachpodcast. com. I promise not to spam the hell out of your inbox. Also, maybe you've noticed, there's no commercials on this show, and that's because currently, we don't have sponsors. And while maybe, I don't know,
[00:03:00] Aubrey: someday that's going to happen, for now, this show is totally funded by yours truly, and thankfully, the incredible support of you, the listener. So if you like the show and want to make sure it continues to exist and grow, we would super appreciate your support. Just go check out our merch link in the show notes. And, in case you didn't know, every person we interview gets to choose a cause of choice. We then create a custom episode merch piece and donate $5 for every piece sold, and I would say that's a real win-win. So head to the show notes and check out all this season's custom merch. Thank you so much, we couldn't do this without you.
Music fades out…
[00:03:40] Aubrey: thanks so much for being on the show, Monica. I feel even weird calling you that, to be completely honest with you. I feel like I should be saying Chef.
[00:03:48] Monica: No, it's okay. We're past that point in our lives.
[00:03:51] Aubrey: I know, but it's still so wild. So can you just do a brief introduction of like your title and who you are.
[00:04:00] Monica: So hi, my name is Monica. I am a previous executive pastry chef now turned Baldor Specialty Food Sales Executive in the DC territory. I have a very loving and supportive husband who used to be a chef as well and now we have our one and probably only child named Olivia and she's absolutely perfect. We also have a skittish rescue cat. That's very important to us. But yeah, now I think, at this point in my life, we're just living life over here and enjoying the life that we've created. And I'm really excited to be a part of this journey in your life. I feel like you and I have seen each other in so many different stages of our lives that, you just wonder how friendships and mentorships are gonna evolve and grow. And it's really exciting for me to just be a part of this project with you and just support you in this way. It's a very different type of support, I feel like, than what we would typically lean on each other for
[00:05:00] Monica: but I'm really excited that you asked me to do this.
[00:05:03] Aubrey: I am grateful every day for every person who says yes, that they're willing to do this because I feel like I'm just faking it till I make it. And it means a lot to me that people are like, no, there's something there. So truly thank you
[00:05:16] Monica: Of course
[00:05:18] Aubrey: I would love to start by just you getting a chance to share your story, who you are, where you come from, basically just think about anything that you think paints a picture for the listener to get to know you and why you're here.
[00:05:30] Monica: So getting to know me. So I am the product of a hardworking single mom. A true feminist, I think to my core, a real big supporter of, women and everything that women can accomplish. I watched my mom work really hard as I was growing up to provide for like me and my sister. And I think that's the the work ethic and where that came from for me and why I was so okay with working so hard in
[00:06:00] Monica: the industry for so long. Because that's just what you do. You just work so hard in our industry. I remember, you know, having some jobs when I was younger and my mom, would tell me “You need to take this seriously like this is just Rita's Italian ice to you, but this is how somebody pays their mortgage or how somebody puts their child through school”, you know, and that really resonated with me. I don't think there's many parents out there reminding their kids when they're 15 years old how serious their first job is so I think a lot of my personality stems from my mom and her hard work ethic, and watching her raise me and my sister. You know, when my dad died, she didn't really have much of a choice. You just pull yourself up and just go and do and I think that a lot of my go-and-do comes from her. So I remember I had a lot of food service jobs, and it's funny cause my sister got a job at McDonald's when she was 15 and my mom said, “Why don't you work at McDonald's?” And I
[00:07:00] Monica: was like, absolutely not. I will never work at McDonald's. No way. So I ended up getting a job, at a confectionery, tea room with this, lady who still treats me like her daughter, like she doesn't have any children and she came to my child's first birthday, so it's just, it's a lot of love there. And it was such a great place for me to just be young, have a job that didn't require so much, responsibility and pressure, unlike all the places I found myself in. And it was great. I always had food jobs and that's what made me decide that I wanted to go to culinary school and study pastry. And I remember my mom, she put herself through a master's program, she would tutor on the side. She, really excelled herself in her career, just to make sure that she could provide for us. And I remember her looking at me and being like, “Pastries? Do people make money doing that?” I was like “I just wanna study bread and chocolate and sugar”
[00:08:00] Monica: and she said, “Are you gonna be living in my basement when you're 30?” And I said, “I hope not.” So right out of the gate, there was this like expectation like, yeah, you can go do what you want, but you just gotta do it really well. That's always how I grew up. And my mom put me through really great private schools and really great high school and I was like, why not go to the best culinary school in America? So then I landed at CIA and that was, you know, people tell you culinary school is very expensive and it might not be worth it, but for me, it was completely worth it. You know, I didn't know how to do anything really. I needed somebody to teach me like the backbone and the basics and stuff like that. Could I have probably gone to somewhere that was cheaper in a technical school local? Yeah, but I just really wanted to continue that kind of do the best, be the best, as you possibly can, that my mom instilled in me from the very beginning. I kind of blame that on her.
[00:08:56] Aubrey: I feel you on this. My parents were always like, “You can be whatever you want.
[00:09:00] Aubrey: If you're going to be a dump truck driver, be a dump truck driver, but you better be the best dump truck driver that there ever was.” I feel very similarly and it's a supportive parent thing. They weren't like, we're going to choose for you, but if you're going to commit, like commit.
[00:09:17] Monica: Yeah and the high school that I went to, I was surrounded by a lot of people that were not, that I wasn't necessarily in the same tax bracket as them with a single mom. And, you know, my mom, she tried to make it as normal of a life as possible and not let my sister and I turn into statistics, and I had a great childhood, you know, when I look back now and see all the work that she did for us, I'm just like, how, how did you do all this for us? But I think that's what kind of pushed me into that luxury sector is, seeing, what else the world had, and of course, I want to go to the best culinary school, and of course, I want to work for the best chefs, and of course, I want to, just put my nose in, into my work and just dive both feet in and be a part of this world that I didn't even know existed until I went to, culinary school, so it was really good for
[00:10:00] Monica: me, like I, I desperately needed that and I wanted that and say what you want about CIA, but I think the name really, got me into a couple kitchens that I wouldn't potentially have been able to get into unless I had that name on my resume. So, I have zero regrets about going to culinary school. I think it's a great school. I love my time there and I just wanted to work for the best people that I could and sell my soul for as long as I possibly could to get as far as I possibly could. I've always liked being in charge and I've always wanted to be the one making the decisions. I hated when other people's poor planning or, lack of decision-making would put me in a bad spot. And that was something at a very young age, I was like, no, I must be the one setting everybody else up. I must be the one making decisions for myself. I have to be able to control this myself. And I think that kind of led to my like my obsessive nature with schedules and planning and organizing. I think that's something that you're born with and then it just gets nurtured, whether it's in a positive or a negative direction. Wherever you decide to work, you get some people that are a little
[00:11:00] Monica: neurotic and you get some people that are a little flexible and, you find out that you end up becoming a product of the environment that you grew up in. Whether it's in the kitchen or it's in like the personal perspective. So I think that, through my career, I worked with some really crazy neurotic people and I think that kind of, um, nurtured my neurosis a little bit. Um, but at the end of the day, I got where I wanted in my career, where I was in charge of everything and I wanted to be at a certain position by the time I was X amount of years old, and I think there's a lot of sacrifice that's involved in that. But if you are committed to what you're doing and you just keep that end goal in the forefront of your mind, like it literally leads all of your decisions.
[00:11:43] Aubrey: So I really appreciate you sharing so much in your story. You covered a lot of different aspects and details. And something that really stood out to me was that you were elaborating on this really stark contrast between your home life and like your private school life
[00:12:00] Aubrey: and living between and shifting between these two different worlds. And I thought that was something that a lot of people can really relate to, but also I think is what set you up for success in a lot of aspects of your career, especially working in these elite hotels, restaurants, and things of that nature. So I was really curious, was this something that you were conscientious of from a young age and how did you use that to your advantage? Or is this something that is more like hindsight 20-20 as an adult? Kind of thing.
[00:12:29] Monica: I think it was a little bit of 50/50. My mom was always very focused on making our lives as normal as possible, but it was always very clear to me when I would go to a friend's house, you know after school, this was like after high school, and they would live in this beautiful, crazy home and I lived in a very normal home. You know, a lot of the girls, their first car was their dad's old Mercedes. I think everybody at my school had a North Face backpack. And like, my mom could never afford that. Like she could afford the tuition, yeah, but not the stuff that goes
[00:13:00] Monica: along with that world and that identity and I guess the status symbols, you know from a possession point.
[00:13:25] Aubrey: But I guess I mean specifically about as you grew, because I feel like there's a different way that people approach life, that they approach people based on the foundation and exposure to these very different worlds, right? Like, you're talking about all these kids who live in a very different bubble than some of the rest of us live in, and again, in these hotels, I feel like this theme just echoed a lot for you of interacting with, these very different worlds and it's a very interesting juxtaposition. So I guess I'm curious, strategy queen, like your mindset, your approach to how you bridge that gap and how you used it to your advantage. If it was something that you were conscientious of.
[00:13:47] Monica: Yeah, I think one of the things I've always been pretty good at is reading the room and identifying different personalities and identifying like what's going to push someone in the right or wrong direction. You know, I had a food and beverage director in the last
[00:14:00] Monica: eight years or so tell me that my personality can oftentimes command the room. So if I'm having a bad day, everybody has a bad day, or if I'm having a great day, everybody has a great day. And you don't realize like, the power of that. And I wish somebody would have told me that sooner cause that's something that I never really considered, you know. I just, I was always very inquisitive and very observant as to like, how are the people carrying themselves in this environment that I'm in and in order to, I don't want to say the word blend in, but in order to not cause a societal ruckus, like read the room and how is everyone carrying themselves around you? How is everyone communicating around you? If you want to be at this level, like there is an expectation of how you carry yourself and there's an expectation on how you perform, and there's an expectation on what you deliver, how you deliver.
[00:15:00] Monica: I think the biggest takeaway for me was reading the room and just like understanding “Who am I surrounded by?” And what is going to get me the most successful outcome with anything really, with interactions, with execution for product, with any part of just living through your daily life. What's going to make me the most successful.
[00:15:23] Aubrey: I think another thing that's interesting that you touched on that I hadn't really thought too much about until you just said it was you were talking a lot about reading the room, which makes perfect sense. Now, hearing you describe it and having worked with you, I see it so clearly, and that's going to actually lead perfectly to another question I have for you, but you were saying about how you wish that this person had pointed out like how your energy affected the room outwards sooner and that's also something I feel like I very much can relate to. And I've talked a lot on the podcast of how what a difference I feel like that would have made in my career if more of that had happened. And so I find it interesting. You're talking
[00:16:00] Aubrey: about how you're very conscientious of being able to read the room of other people and read other people's energy. But there was still that disconnect in being able to do it for yourself, which we all feel, right? All of us have a much easier time looking outwards than we do inwards a lot of times. So I just find it interesting that it was already something you were conscious of, and yet it still took time. And I think that's something that everyone can relate to.
[00:16:26] Monica: Yeah, and I wish that somebody would have told me that sooner because I think I was so focused on everyone else around me from that perspective that I wasn't actually looking at myself. And I don't know, maybe I was trying not to be narcissistic and just think about myself all the time, but it's incredible when someone says that to you that it just sticks with you for the rest of your life. And you're like, Wow, I had no idea that my personality had this much potential power, and I think that I love feedback and I crave feedback and I love when people tell me this is good or this is not so good.
[00:17:00] Monica: So I really wish someone had the balls to say that to me sooner. I would have loved to have known that 10 years earlier, as opposed to eight or five years earlier.
[00:17:11] Aubrey: I feel this in my soul in my own way. I completely get what you're saying. and that's why I think that it's interesting. And I wanted to point out that you had said that because I think a lot of us are trying, professionally, to be conscientious of the room that we're in and to, be a part of the team. I also want to be tentative using the term narcissistic but like sometimes you do have to really start inwards and reflect on what's working and what's at peace before you can even go outwards.
[00:17:39] Monica: and I also think that my perspective of myself is very different from other people. So this is part of that like HR exercise where someone says dog and someone says, like a breed of a dog versus a name of their favorite dog. Everyone's perspective is so different. And it's you can think one thing about yourself, but if we want to talk about strategy and ways to be successful, it's go
[00:18:00] Monica: to the people that you either manage or that manage you. And ask them for feedback if they're not giving that to you. Ask them for how can I be a better manager for you? How can I be a better supportive coworker for you? Like, how can I be a better supportive, spouse or, daughter, or friend? It's like sometimes people just need the question to be asked, and that instead of having years of friction or years of unnecessary, stalls and delays, it's like, okay, here's what we need here this is exactly what I need from you as my boss. Or this is exactly what I need from you as my employee, or my insubordinate, or whatever. Right now I don't manage anybody, but I do work with a lot of people. So, going to them and being like, hey, I do this this way. Is that okay for you? does that work for you? And I think, you know, a leader versus, an employee are two very different perspectives, but still it's you want to provide the support however you can.
[00:18:56] Aubrey: A hundred percent. And this really leads into sort of the second thing I was going to bring up.
[00:19:00] Aubrey: I don't know that it's a question anymore, cause we were already talking about it, but one of the main reasons I worked for you for so many times, and I think one of the reasons you invited me back to work with you so many times, is because even though I don't think we could have said it in these words back then, or been as, verbal about it, I feel like we were naturally doing this. We were more than almost anyone else able to see each other for their like true selves beyond our personal coping mechanisms that I think we were doing a lot in our, younger part of our career. And so I feel like that really just ties in this nature versus nurture topic that we've touched on a few times in this conversation. And would confidently say that's why we have the ability to work so well together. It was that our experiences lined up. And so we were able to make that work, even though we couldn't have pinpointed
[00:20:00] Aubrey: at the time exactly why it was working. I don't know. Would you agree? And if so, what could we have done differently, so we could have actually gotten farther along in this?
[00:20:13] Monica: Honestly, I don't think much because there are just some relationships that work really well. And some that just don't, and holding on to the ones that work really well, it's not saying that you can't work on ones that challenge you, but at some point you need to know when to pull the plug and say, you know what, this is not productive for anybody. Like this is just not working. Sometimes you're the one that has the control over the plug and sometimes you're the one that doesn't, so you have to just kind of work through it and take from it what you can. But, you know, I, I wanted to work with you so much cause you cared and you're not stupid. That's the real reason.
[00:20:49] Aubrey: Girl, I was both those things.
[00:20:51] Monica: Cause you turned your brain on.
[00:20:53] Aubrey: Yeah. And it went for you too,
[00:20:55] Monica: You know, sometimes I wish I could turn my brain off if I'm honest.
[00:20:57] Aubrey: That's the hardest skill I work on is just
[00:21:00] Aubrey: just being. Like, you know when men, when this always goes around, people always be like, “Oh, what are you thinking?” And men are like “Nothing.” And then the best thing that ever happened to me was realizing that they actually mean nothing. Like they're just existing in like neutral. And it's just not a thing that women do naturally. And I'm not saying that it needs to be like our matching default, however, I do think that there is something to be said about both sort of meeting in the middle a little bit, but anyway, that's a whole other topic.
[00:21:34] Monica: I think that there's like this toxic trait in me that just has to be productive all the time. And I don't know if that's a woman thing, I don't know if that's a nature-nurture thing, I don't know if that's just like the kitchen hustle that's in me, and I also don't know if you want to include this, but I started trying edibles recently. But listen, I've never done drugs in my life, not because nobody's ever offered it to me, I just don't like being out of control. And that's something that I know about myself. I know I like to be in control.
[00:22:00] Monica: So like that is very, you know, my husband's “Oh, just like lowest dose possible. Just shut your brain down a little bit”, and I've tried at the end of the night and I'm like, I hate this. I'm like walking around the kitchen like I'm an idiot. I can't get anything together. I just can't, like, this is the worst. I'm like, I don't know if I even enjoy having my brain shut off like this. This is more annoying than it is helpful. It's more stressful than it is stressless, you know? Like, even if my brain does shut down, I just can't.
[00:22:28] Aubrey: We can have a conversation in the future as to how to help you find that healthy balance because I have found it, however, I think the moral of the story is definitely, without going too much psychologically into your past, I agree. I think it is nature versus nurture, and I think it again continues just, the importance of the theme that, I feel like traditionally, nature versus nurture is your genetics versus your experience, right? But selfishly, not that I'm a psychologist and have any right to be changing the definition of
[00:23:00] Aubrey: nature versus nurture, but I encourage people to rethink it in the sense of what is your natural personality? And then what are the experiences that life presented you and how did those match up? And did it match up in a way that provided opportunity or did it show up in a way that did not pair well and caused a lot of hurdles? And despite the hurdles that you've experienced in your life, I really still believe that in a very interesting way, they paired well together in the long run that allowed you to reach where you did. And that's, why I want to follow up on these things is because I find it really interesting how that worked out and how you were able to channel these things that could have, quote, “been detrimental” in a way, but somehow together, you turned them into skill sets and a career. And so I guess that's why I was curious to see if there was any part of it that you felt you were conscientious of, like at any point, whether that be when you were
[00:24:00] Aubrey: younger or at CIA and so forth that sort of, help create that drive, but it sounds more like it was just, “Hey, I liked control” and that makes perfect sense considering your history and your personality. And it's just Nope, it was just, that's what it came down to. It came down to, I like control and all these things fed really well into it.
[00:24:21] Monica: And I think a lot of it, too, came from my youth, my mom was a teacher, and the more that I analyze, my relationship with my mom as a child, I see, she treated our home life very much like a classroom. Very much I'm the adult, I'm the teacher, I'm the one in charge, this is what you do, and I think after years and years of that, the desire for, some kind of freedom and some kind of being able to decision make on your own. Um, you know, something that she taught me in my youth was you always have to get done your chores and stuff before you can do anything fun. And I still carry that over in my adulthood and I really hate that because I can't relax and I can't sit still until I get my work done. And let's get real as an adult, your work is never done. So there are these things that kind of translated not only to my personal life but also to
[00:25:00] Monica: my career. You know, when you work at a five-star hotel, things are never done. It's, it's never done. And that's been something that I've had to rewind a little bit in my own life and, kind of take inventory of in my own life and be like, is this really critical from a professional standpoint? Is it really critical from a personal standpoint? Like, do I really have to accomplish all of these things? You know, I'm, I'm a chronic box checker. I love being productive. I love getting things done, um,and to sidestep into the people are product of their environment thing. When you're out in the workforce or when you're trying to meet people and get new contacts and, just network a little bit and you meet people that you don't understand. It's like, in that moment, you don't sit there and hyperanalyze them and say “Oh, you must've had X, Y, and Z happen to you, which is why you are this way at a social setting,” right? “That's why you are this way in a professional setting” or whatever. But, if you take that time
[00:26:00] Monica: to just look at people from a different lens and just try to understand them, then you're able to get the most out of people. You can get the most out of people and in turn, that gives you a bunch more stepping blocks, you know, to get to where you need to go too. It's like, you're only going to get far if you get the most and best out of people. I think that's another thing too, recognizing the importance of other people.
[00:26:24] Aubrey: Well, I think working in hospitality and back of house, especially there was a lot of attitude. It's very militaristic. We all know that, especially having gone to CIA. It's just, that's it's foundation. And so there's not a lot of encouragement of individuality, investment in personality and things of that nature. And so I do find this to be something interesting that I hope people will reflect more on, that context does matter. Like it's not a waste of time to reflect or get to know a fellow employee and the context at which they came into it. This nature versus nurture product of their environment.
[00:27:00] Aubrey: It all applies and it actually goes faster, you get more out of your team, when you take that time at the beginning and just figure out what that context is. What's the starting point? And honor the system versus trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole just because “that's the way it's always been done” that's just a waste of time and energy. So I think this is a good thing for everyone to reflect on how they're approaching not only themselves, but the people around them. And that context is important.
[00:27:32] Monica: Yeah, and ask for the feedback. Ask for the feedback from people that, will be honest with you, and who will not tell you what you want to hear. Who's not going to sugarcoat anything? Who's going to literally like, what can I do to be a better manager? Or what can I do to be a, you know, better employee? Where am I lacking?
[00:27:50] Aubrey: I completely agree. Completely agree. Final question that I ask everyone on the show, you can interpret it out however you'd like is I always ask some version of
[00:28:00] Aubrey: what advice would you give to someone who's, maybe a few steps behind you or, to your younger self? Something along those lines. If there was one piece of information that you could give someone to help set them up for success, what would it be?
[00:28:17] Monica: Well, those are 2 very different answers because I would tell myself, “You're not going to get fired as much as you think. You're going to get fired. You are going to eventually be good at this, I promise”. I would say that “You're not always going to suck this bad”, to my younger self. Like this is all a part of the process of growing and maturing and, being the person you're going to eventually be. And I think, to someone who's a few steps behind me, it just makes me feel like I'm ahead and I just don't feel like I'm ahead. I just feel like I'm in a different spot in my life. You know?
[00:28:45] Aubrey: Fair. That's why I like to ask this question, because it resonates for everyone very differently. So I respect that you're like, no, I'm still just figuring it out. But we're all still just trying to figure it out. I don't know. I think we're all just faking it till we make it
[00:29:00] Aubrey: and sometimes that's a good reminder to people too. We're all just faking it.
[00:29:06] Monica: I think, it requires a lot of hard self-reflection. Like, what's important to you? What do you need to work on? What value are you adding? Whether you're, a leader or a follower. Cause we can't have a bunch of leaders in the world. Everybody can't be a leader. Like some people have to be a follower. We've all worked for companies, I feel like, that are like that. Where too many people are walking around, barking orders, and no one's actually doing the work. So we need people in every single role. There's no, just because I'm an employee, or because I'm a follower, makes me any less of value. There's value associated with every single role. So that's a tough one. You know, self reflection, be in the moment where you're at right now. Realize that where you are now is not where you're going to be in six months to a year. I think that's the hardest part, especially when you're looking for change and you're looking for something new and you're like anticipating
[00:30:00] Monica: and anxious for something new. The hardest part is the waiting and not understanding that like where you're at right now, there's something that you're going to pick up along the way that you're going to need later. And you're not going to know until you get to that later. And then you're going to be like, “Oh, that skill that I acquired”, whether it's, emotional or skill set related, like “I've gone through this and I needed this for my next step.” It's all a part of the growing process in your career, or in your personal journey.
[00:30:29] Aubrey: And not underestimating how long it takes for that turnaround. I think personally, as like this resonates with me a lot. And I feel like that's the only piece I want to add to that is you really never know how long it's going to take for that connection to occur. And so just trust the process a little bit because it's going to come back full circle. It always does.
[00:30:52] Monica: And it's a season. Much like the seasons of the year. Like spring isn't forever. Allergy season is not forever. But when you're in allergy season, you're like,
[00:31:00] Monica: holy crap, this is never going to end. Same thing applies to your life. Take what you can from where you're at. And to your point, I would change jobs a lot too, because I would get scared of being stagnant. I had to answer to that. I had to answer to that every time that I had done an interview, people were asking me why I left somewhere after a year. And I said, you know what? It's because I felt like I was getting stale. And I was too young, in my opinion, to get stale somewhere. And when something wasn't challenging me anymore, I moved on. Cause I needed to be challenged. So, you know, you answer to the decisions that you make, for sure. And as long as you have a good answer, no one's ever, no one's ever questioned me after I've said that. Like I had a legitimate reason why I moved on.
[00:31:44] Aubrey: But I think the summary of it all is doing things with intention. We come up with this theme a lot on this show as well. Like everything needs to be done with intention and you'll get where you want to go. And you might evolve along the way, you might twist and turn and change your mind
[00:32:00] Aubrey: but as long as you're trying to take in where you are, what is working, what is not, and what am I going to do about what's not working and how am I going to make it easier to do the things that are or accomplish more of the things that are? Then you'll get wherever you want to go. And maybe you don't know that answer yet. And that's fine.
[00:32:21] Monica: Yeah, for sure.
[00:32:23] Aubrey: I like doing this show, selfishly, cause I feel like at the end I'm always better off for it. So I just hope other people feel this way when they… I feel like now all these things, even though sure, we've talked about them before and I already knew what we were going to talk about. I'm excited for my own self to do more self-reflection and be like, okay, what did I take away from that? What experiences am I not embracing enough? Or oh, I totally forgot about that. Why did I forget about that? I don't know. So I just I hope that people find this as helpful to do that self-reflection as I find it.
[00:32:57] Monica: Yeah, and I think you have to choose what mantras you want
[00:33:00] Monica: on repeat in your head. If I had to give some advice to someone younger than me, find a couple of slogans that mean something to you and just put them on repeat in your brain. Let those be like your guiding forces to get you where you want to go.
[00:33:14] Aubrey: And I'm curious as we finish up, to bring everything a little full circle, you're talking about the changes that you're trying to make and the things that you still want to work on and make progress as your own individual self. And we've gotten to talk a little bit as friends, what changes you're starting to make because of being a mom and how that's influencing, like your ability to control things and have them done the way that you want and whatnot. And so I'm just curious, are you interested in speaking to any of that? Or examples of how that experience has allowed you to sort of find that, that contrast to this like very formal approach and, detail oriented approach to life, to being able to incorporate more of that, fluidness and, finding that like compromise, being able
[00:34:00] Aubrey: to find that middle ground?
[00:34:02] Monica: Yeah, I think a lot of my sanity is still kept because I have a very supportive spouse. Children, it sounds so cliche, but I feel like they are constantly teaching you something about them or you. And it's the most challenging thing that I have personally ever done. I'm glad I waited until I was in my mid thirties because it's a lot of sacrifice. And I think seeing as much as we love and hate social media, seeing all these moms post, you know, what they do, it makes you
[00:35:00] Monica: feel less isolated. I think so, as much as we love to hate on social media I think that there is a lot of good information and also a lot of bad information, but the good information that you see is like, “Oh, you know, you make a full plate for your child and they only take one bite and they reject everything on the plate. And there's really nothing you did. It's just literally the child. And yes, this gets frustrating after six weeks of doing this.” Like it's okay, yeah. So this is normal. I think seeing that people are very vocal about how parenthood and motherhood, working motherhood, is very messy, it kind of eases my mind, and I do have someone, in the back of my ear that I respect and that I care for that reminds me, like, hey it's not always going to go the way you want it, and that's fine, it doesn't have to. So I think the takeaway is surrounding yourself with the people that, see you for who you are, can call you out on stuff and you respect them enough to identify it within yourself and either move on it or leave it alone and leave it behind. Motherhood is so messy.
[00:35:45] Aubrey: Yeah. It's one of the reasons I still haven't done it. So more power to all of you, more power to all of you.
[00:35:51] Monica: I mean, I wish somebody, cause nobody, like I told myself, I was like, “Man, 18-hour New Year's Eve shift, opening restaurants, opening hotels. I got this,”
[00:36:00] Monica: but no, there's no break. There is no break. There is no day off to recover. There is no quiet Saturday to yourself, or Sunday, whatever your days off are. It's no, this shit keeps going, it does not stop.
[00:36:11] Aubrey: I think that's the most intriguing part about parenthood, is truly that it's never over. Once it starts, it's never over.
[00:36:18] Monica: No. And I was so stupid. I was so stupid. And all my industry friends that are older and having children, they're like, “I'm good, I'm good, yeah, yeah.” I thought the same thing. Good luck to all of us, But it's we only have one and it's I look at it now and I'm like, man, I wish I would have been a little bit more empathetic towards the working parents in our industry, especially the working parents of multiples because it's like, holy crap, man, this is, this… To do what we do in our industry and also have a family. I mean, that's a completely separate podcast discussion. it's just, it's absurd that people, you want to just make sure your children don't feel neglected, but you also want to give 110% to what you do because that's just what we do in our industry.
[00:37:00] Monica: We just throw ourselves in 110% and you can't give 110% to everything.
[00:37:03] Aubrey: Yeah. I definitely think this is worth a part too, but I just want to say a quick statement about I think don't have enough the conversation that we never stop being our individual selves just because you have children. Like you're still a human trying to live your life and build out and want to be proud of the work you're doing. Like, that doesn't turn off because you had a kid. And yeah, I can't imagine like trying to... Want to still invest in yourself and accomplish the things you want to accomplish, but then also wanting to do such a great job because you love your child and you want the best for them. So much respect, truly. I really appreciate this. You taking the time to do all the things. I'm very grateful. So are there any sort of final thoughts, words you, you want to share before we wrap up?
[00:37:49] Monica: No, I so love talking to you though.
[00:37:51] Aubrey: I feel so privileged to get this. So truly thank you.
[00:37:54] Monica: And you know what I have to say, I look back fondly on the time that you and I were together so much in every kitchen
[00:38:00] Monica: we ever worked together. And it's funny because whenever I have an opportunity to like, talk about my career or, talk about, you know where I've been or whatever, and if there's a way that you enter the scene like I always tell people I'm like “I don't even know why she stayed with me for so long. I feel like I didn't deserve her.” You know, there's a few people that worked with me a bunch of different places and I just feel looking back now I just feel so fortunate that I had people that I could trust and had people that were you know trying to function the same way as me and that's a gift, you know? So I want to say thank you to you for always being that founding board for me and that rock too because there were times for sure where I just feel like I may have been the bold one, but you were always like my steady rock in the workplace. And I knew that I could rely on you and depend on you and stuff like that. So I think this public platform opportunity to appreciate you a little bit.
[00:39:00] Aubrey: As someone that really struggles with compliments, I really appreciate you. Selfishly as an adult, I really just appreciate hearing that because I did like so we've talked so much about self-reflection that I've had to put in a lot of work for the last two years, especially, that's why somehow I went from being a freaking pastry chef to being a millennial with a podcast. And it's still just weird to think about that, but I think it's just because I carried so much weight for so many years from so many different experiences in this industry, and there are certain ones that were like fresh air that I was able to keep going off of, if that makes sense. And those always came from being a part of strong teams that I could trust. That was rare to find. Though, when it did it like, I know it sounds cheesy, but it literally felt magical. And I, that lot on teams that we were on together.
[00:40:00] Aubrey: And so anyway, I just think it was very special when it did happen. And like I've talked on the show about mentors and how I wish I'd had them more and all this stuff. And I think that was because my perception for so many years was just like, I need the mentor of where I'm trying to end up. And as I got older and that's why I asked the question a few steps ahead of you because like you. I'll also give a shout out to like Sarah Knight and to Gina Netisnga who, working with them and seeing other women who were passionate about what they were doing, gave me permission to set a particular tone in how I could work and how I could live and all those things. So I just, I don't know, let people find their people and I hope that they embrace it and get the opportunity to grow from it because I am far better off because of it.
[00:40:45] Monica: Yeah, for sure.
[00:40:48] Aubrey: Truly, thank you. I always feel bad because I never know how to end it because I just want to keep talking to people and I'm like, no, you have to stop at some point. So I'm just going to force myself. To say thank you, and I appreciate you,
[00:40:58] Monica: No, I appreciate that, you've
[00:41:00] Monica: stayed in my life as long as you have, and like I said, I'm just happy to be a part of, the next stage in your life, whatever that looks like. We both are in such very different places now, and, it's the people that stick with you the longest that you really want to hold on to. So, I'm grateful that you're still holding onto this relationship that we have, because, you go through a lot with people and you just hope that they stick it out with you. So thank you for that.
[00:41:27] Aubrey: I want to make this note that this year is 10 years that we've known each other now officially. So crazy, right?
[00:41:32] Monica: It's just wild.
[00:41:34] Aubrey: We've gotten to see a lot of versions of each other and a lot of evolutions. And I think there's something really special about getting to see people find themselves and grow themselves and getting to be a part of that and getting to help do that for each other. So just, yeah, thanks.
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[00:41:50] Aubrey: Pardon one more quick selfless plug. Anyone who knows me knows I love books, so we are affiliate partners of bookshop.org,
[00:42:00] Aubrey: an organization dedicated to keeping local bookstores alive and thriving because those big corporations; They just don't need any more of our money. So head to the show notes where we've linked our bookshelf -and bonus- we'd love if you sent us suggestions to add. You can do so by DMing us on Instagram @goldenapproachpod, or join our email subscriptions on our website, goldenapproachpodcast.com. Okay, let's dive back in.
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[00:42:30] Aubrey: So, all right, in closing, I know you have to go, I'm going to take literally one last minute of your time. And then I promise we're getting off. it's going to be the most rapid-fire of rapid-fire. So. I pre-picked your questions.
[00:42:42] Monica: Love these, but I'm nervous. I'm really scared.
[00:42:45] Aubrey: They're very easy. You've heard them
[00:42:46] Monica: Okay
[00:42:47] Aubrey: What is your favorite meal that you've ever experienced?
[00:42:51] Monica: This is a hard one.
[00:42:53] Aubrey: What do you have such fond memories about?
[00:42:55] Monica: Oh my gosh. There's too many. Food is just, food is such a big part of our lives. Gosh.
[00:43:00] Monica: This is a terrible rapid-fire question. I have a million.
[00:43:04] Aubrey: You like had to choose just one. I don't know.
[00:43:07] Monica: Okay. The fastest and simplest one was, I remember going to, the Aviary in Chicago and seeing Robert Downey Jr. across the dining room, which was pretty cool. Cause, like, when I saw him across the dining room, I was like 23, 24 years old and I had the biggest crush on him. So I was like, this is awesome. like seeing him here.
[00:43:24] Aubrey: I'd probably freaked out if I saw him too.
[00:43:26] Monica: Yeah, and my nephew had just been born at the time and my brother in law's really into Iron Man. So I was like, look at my preemie nephew. I literally went over to him cause I had like 45 cocktails.
[00:43:37] Aubrey: I mean, it's the Aviary. Is that not the point?
[00:43:39] Monica: Yeah, and because you work in all these places where you can't really go up to famous people and solicit them. I was like, shit, I have nothing to lose. I might as well go up to him. I can't lose my job.
[00:43:48] Aubrey: That is so true. It's like your one opportunity.
[00:43:50] Monica: Yeah
[00:43:51] Aubrey: That's cool. Hey, wow a lot of things accomplished in that one experience. So good answers. all right. You're I'm. You're going to have trouble with this now because you're in trouble with the first one, but let's just
[00:44:00] Aubrey: go for it. What chef's voice sticks with you? And if it's appropriate, what is something they say? What's something that haunts you still?
[00:44:09] Monica: Yeah, I wouldn't say haunts me. I think some of the best advice I ever got, actually, from a chef when I was at CIA and we were in apple pie, I had Francisco Mygoya, who obviously everybody in, the food world knows was at Modernist and now he's over at the Nomad because he's a genius. He was absolutely terrifying, but so intriguing, so quiet and so like stoic and so smart, just so stinking smart. And I think what, it doesn't haunt me, but what really stuck in my head when I was going to go graduate, I asked him like, what do I do with my life? What do I do with my career? What's your best advice? And he told me like, don't specialize in anything. The day that you start specializing in just chocolate, just bread, just sugar, just hotels, just restaurants, he's like, you're really going to limit yourself. He's like, so, for your career, just try and diversify yourself as much as possible. You're going to be most useful to people the more that you know.
[00:45:00] Monica: And honestly, I have had to justify why I've jumped jobs every two years, but in the back of my head, I do have, this person telling me, like, don't get stagnant. Don't get stuck somewhere. Diversify yourself. Diversify what you bring to the table. And make sure you know how to do everything. And I think that's been something, that's been something that really stuck with mefor a very long time.
[00:45:24] Aubrey: That's excellent advice. I 100% believe it and stand by it. and he also is a genius. I agree. And then last one is, what is your perfect day? If you could live any day, what would it be?
[00:45:33] Monica: My perfect day is turning off my work cell phone. Because as much as I love what I do and I love food sales and I love working with chefs. I hear from chefs seven days a week, 24 hours a day. It's like people are always reaching out to me. So it's I'm getting at the place where my life, where I just really enjoy turning off my phone and just being present. in the moment. Um, our child's way too squirmy to go to eat, but I love going out to dinner. I think
[00:46:00] Monica: my perfect day, if I was very selfish, would be going to a spa, like, all day, like a five-star resort spa, and then, eating dinner with my husband, and going to sleep, and sleeping solidly, and waking up leisurely, and drinking some coffee, and then going into the chaos of being with my child. But if it was, like, a family perfect day, it's okay, turning off my work phone, because that's usually the biggest hurdle, and, being present. And just she's so curious about, life in the world right now that it's like, okay, something so simple as, going to a park. You know, she's still learning and stuff, but it's just so fun to see her learn and to see her be curious about the world. So we want to go to the zoo. So like turning my work phone off and going to the zoo with her would be great. So there's two different perfect days.
[00:46:42] Aubrey: I think it's really important that you specified because I feel like more parents feel that way and they feel, I don't want to say ashamed, but like nervous to admit that they dream of a perfect day without their children. And so I really respect that you did both.
[00:46:55] Monica: But it's like that in between two where you're like, Oh my God, I would really love a break. But then you're like, Oh my God,
[00:47:00] Monica: I miss them so much. And when you're not with them, when she's sleeping, I'm looking at pictures like a psychopath. So it's it's the ebb and flow of parenthood, I think.
[00:47:07] Aubrey: Fair enough. Well, I've taken up enough of your time. We can ramble forever, but I know you have somewhere to be, so I'm going to let you go and I really appreciate you.
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[00:47:17] Aubrey: Thank you for listening to another episode of the Golden Approach podcast. I hope you've enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I always find it to be a good reminder, as Monica said, that we're all just products of our environments. And that by doing the work to better understand our own nature and nurture, we can then better understand others and provide both personal and professional progress. I'll see you back here in two weeks for our season finale. Can you believe it? We will then be off for a few weeks and then back in August to celebrate year two of the show. I honestly don't know where the time is going, but in the meantime, as always, I encourage you to give our episodes another listen, as often
[00:48:00] Aubrey: different takeaways resonate depending on when you're listening. And if you've liked today's episode, or any episode prior, please show us some love by following the show and leaving a review wherever you're currently listening. And maybe share us with a friend, because truly the hardest part is having people find the show, so your efforts are appreciated. You can stay in the know by following us on Instagram @goldenapproachpod or subscribing to our email list on our website, GoldenApproachPodcast.com and you'll find things like our reference links, merch, affiliate partner info, transcripts, and more, all of which will be linked in the show notes per usual. Until next time though, buh bye!
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