Life, Death, and Everything in Between with Sarah Knight
EP 209 with Sarah Knight
Chef, Butcher, Farmer
This week Sarah sheds light on a part of our food system that many folks don’t often see for themselves: slaughter and butchery. While this topic may feel graphic to some, it is a necessary reality for all of us who choose to eat meat, whether we see it firsthand or not, and we believe the only way to make the system more ethical is to be open about how it works and what it takes.
EPISODE OUTLINE
[00:03:27] What does a truly ethical kitchen look like?
[00:10:25] Autonomy and whimsy
[00:19:29] Death, the companion to life
[00:33:35] Feeling the “bad” to more wholly experience the “good”
[00:38:32] Putting respect and care first
RESOURCES
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Mentioned in the Episode:
Jackson Hole Buffalo Meat Company
EP 204: The Call of Our Souls with Elyse Preston
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TRANSCRIPT
Music fades in…
[00:00:00] Aubrey: Hi Sunshine, and welcome to the show. I'm your host, Aubrey, a hopeful romantic who's always loved getting to know others and learning what I don't know. Here I chat with kindhearted humans and insightful professionals sharing their stories to learn from each other's experiences in hope of going beyond the golden rule and collectively building a more kind and curious world for all, this is the Golden Approach. I'm so grateful you're here.
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[00:00:26] Aubrey: Welcome to another episode. Today's is a part 2 so if you have not listened to the 1st part of this conversation that came out last week, I genuinely encourage you to go back and do so. You don't have to, but if you don't know Sarah and/or you don't know her background, then you definitely want to get that context because it really plays into the conversation that we have in today's episode. With that being said, I am so excited to have the amazing Sarah Knight back on the show. As I mentioned last week, she is an incredible chef, writer,
[00:01:00] Aubrey: and again, I would say activist. In today's conversation, unlike last week, where it was a little bit more technical and sort of all about the journey, this conversation really gets a bit more philosophical and emotional. And I do want to forewarn any listener that is sensitive to conversations of death, that there is talk about death and butchery and things of that nature in this episode, because Sarah does work in butchery. Um, but there's nothing that I think is inappropriately, or overly, graphic, obviously, that is personal opinion. If you're already thinking about turning this episode off because of that, I have to say that's kind of why I'm having this episode is because I think far too often we are really uncomfortable with the conversation and idea of death and what happens to us after death,
[00:02:00] Aubrey: when really it's just another part of the life cycle that you can't have life without death and vice versa. Both of us were extremely open and vulnerable in this episode. We shared a lot of heartfelt discussion about what is ethical living, emotional processing, and cultural attitudes. I really do hope that you'll really give this episode a chance. So without further ado, let's get to the good stuff.
[00:02:33] Aubrey: So I want to get to the real meat of the conversation. You can decide if the pun is intended or not. But, I want to talk about life cycles. We've touched on your life cycle thus far, and I thought it was important to share all that because it provides the necessary context to have this conversation and I want to start that conversation with your time with the students. And you've touched on this already and this multi-generational lifestyle coming together in a
[00:03:00] Aubrey: way to be able to actually learn from each other versus a hierarchy variation that maybe people are more used to that is, more embraced in Western complex. So tell us since you've lived in both now, how that has maybe changed you and or ways that you think can be shared and applied back out into the world that you come from originally.
What Does a Truly Ethical Kitchen Look Like?
[00:03:27] Sarah: Yeah, there's a couple of things happening. The first thing that's happening for me in working with these students, right? It's not your traditional, chef brigade hierarchy. Like, I do run the boarding house, which is like the full kitchen butcher shop, dining area, waste management, that is my baby, but the way that we all work within the space is not completely up to me. And, this is where the like self-governance aspect comes in for the students. They run through, who is
[00:04:00] Sarah: going to work in each space in each term And that has, you know, I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm learning to let go of things traditionally that I thought I had to be like super, in control in the way that I was taught is the best way and that's the only way. For example, we don't have, uniforms that we wear in the kitchen, right? I have some, itchy jackets that I wear and I always wear an apron and the right shoes and that kind of thing but, the young women will come in and they'll wear dresses while they're working in the kitchen and the very first time it happened I was thinking back and I was like man, they're gonna fucking spill grease on their legs, and we're gonna have to go to the ER, and, this is gonna be a problem. And I have to, talk myself down from reacting that way, which is the way that I was taught. And there's nothing wrong with safety by any means, but, we don't have to all be in there wearing checked pants in
[00:05:00] Sarah: order to accomplish what it is that we're trying to accomplish. Their individuality is allowed to shine through and I'm learning to not only embrace that, but, encourage it. And the other examples of when I first got here, I was so gung ho on planning all of the meals all of the time and not only is that like, creatively exhausting, but it's unrealistic. It was after the second or third term that I told myself, I need to step back from this. I need to give them the space to really involve themselves and I can't go back to planning them all because what they come up with is far beyond what I am ready to come up with. I am very much in the space of I've been doing this for 15, 20 years. And I really just want to make a nice salad and roast a chicken And you know on the other side of that they're like let's make a savory croquembouche and I'm like,
[00:06:00] Sarah: okay. Yeah.
[00:06:04] Aubrey: I respect the dreams.
[00:06:06] Sarah: Me too. Me too. Definitely, and I'm glad that they feel safe and comfortable and confident to do that, to want to do that. We're already talking about Chinese new year and how many dumplings we're going to make for that and they want to have a dumpling making party and contest and there, it's just, there's something happening where I'm having fun in a new way in the kitchen that I haven't been able to do in a long time. And, we're finding, the whimsy in it again, and fuck if I didn't miss, just, the whimsy that naturally comes out of spaces when you're just like letting people be people and you're not trying to command this system that’s militaristic behavior and response to everything. We are not
[00:07:00] Sarah: Per Se, we are not, Alinea, we're not going to produce the same stuff here, but what we're going to do, full, humble brag, but we're going to source better quality stuff because we have it here and we're raising it and we're going to cook with that. Really like we're honoring each other in this way of working, and we're honoring the lifestyle that's been set up for us, and there's so much great satisfaction in that, that I'm getting now that I haven't in a long time. And, it's really great to laugh and be silly and not be so serious about what has to happen and production deadlines and meeting the client’s demands, and my F and B manager’s, and my general manager’s, and my beverage director’s, concerns and wishes and, honoring the 18 requests off, And now I'm just like, hey, we are doing this slaughter on
[00:08:00] Sarah: Wednesday, and we're butchering two days after that because it's poultry and guys, we're going to turn around and then we're going to do it again with beef. And then we're going to do it with pork. And we're going to serve this beef or this pork with this beautiful squash that we raised here. And you guys are going to eat, the fruits of your labor and, holy shit, I'm so happy I found that.
[00:08:22] Aubrey: I think there's something to be really said about this whimsiness and fun. And as a fellow woman, who's raised in that industry and left trying to remember what it is to just be fun and be silly and that there's not going to be someone over your shoulder, shaming you for giggling too loud or having any sign of emotion whatsoever I think that's such an interesting part of this whole situation as well. It's just, it's weird how it like, it gets so pushed down and becomes so quiet. But I also am so impressed that it's so
[00:09:00] Aubrey: resilient and that like it was always still there even if it was something that I did not use or embrace for a long time, almost like a decade. So just, I think it's so joyful and emotional to hear that coming back and I felt it like I, again, I know I'm a little lucky cause I literally just got to see you, but that was like literally the first time I saw you in probably two years.
[00:09:25] Sarah: At least, no, it's gotta be longer because you visited at Carversville, I think towards the end of my first year, maybe like in between seasons there. So I think it's like closer to three. Yeah.
[00:09:38] Aubrey: Yeah, so I hadn't gotten to see you. And so just for context, yes, we have this thing to reminisce about that just happened, but that's the first time in years that we've crossed paths. And so being able to be in the kitchen with you and to feel that energy and to feel like we get to be professionals, but we could laugh and we could be silly, but also
[00:10:00] Aubrey: if I need to eat a snack, I'm going to go eat a snack. And we still pulled off kick-ass food. That was just beautiful and excellent and so well received. And it was exhausting. We still pulled 14 and a half hour days. We started one day at 4:30 in the morning, but it was the most fun I have had cooking in I literally don't remember how long. I don't know, I just think that's such an important thing to point out.
Autonomy and Whimsy
[00:10:25] Sarah: Well, it is important and you, Kristina and I were lucky enough that we were working together again and we were doing so on our own terms, yeah, autonomy. And it wasn't like, this needs to meet this client's wishlist or, demands really but it was like, we get to come in and make food that we know how to do really well and taste fantastic, but also is in a reciprocal nature
[00:11:00] Sarah: with the community that's here with how it is that we want to prepare it and present it. And it did not feel like that high stakes, if I mess something up, I'm going to get fired kind of thing. It was like cooking live fire, dealing with whatever like mistakes and craziness that can happen while also trying to do it in two different spaces, working with, four to eight very novice student cooks at the same time. And just like being able to stop and take a bite and go put your feet in the dirt, like it wasn't, I don't know. It's just the epitome of how enjoyable this, all of this, should be all the time. And you can do high stakes stuff but it doesn't have to feel like you're solving the world's problems while you're doing it. I was lucky enough, my sister
[00:12:00] Sarah: Nikki, recently set me up with a client whose wedding, Kristina and I went and did in Wyoming after the reunion and I wasn't sure if I wanted to do it when she asked me, because they are a lot of work, but I still love making really good food and expressing myself that way. And so I had a conversation with the bride before the wedding and was like, what are you looking for and what haven't you found and talking to these other caterers and it was either like, it was going to cost $20,000 to feed a hundred people for the weekend and, she would have to pay extra money to put up all of this staff, just these exorbitant fees. And the other end of the spectrum was $17 a plate per person, but everything's coming out of cans or was frozen. And so after we got past the logistical issues we spoke further and I was like, what do you like? Who are you? And she is, I, if I remember
[00:13:00] Sarah: correctly, she's studying or is already a wildlife biologist, and she wrote her dissertation on the American buffalo, on bison. And it just like immediately clicked. I have a colleague and a friend who owns Jackson Hole Buffalo Meat Company, and that was 45 minutes away from the site, and he raises his own pastured, buffalo, and, I was like, I think I can do this for you, and I can do this for you in a way that honors the way that I want to cook, and will honor what it is that you love and we just ran down this idea of a full bison menu for the weekend and I contacted my buddy, Chris, and he was like, yeah, let's go. And basically, I was able to travel to this beautiful ranch in Wyoming and serve them bison that was raised less than 50 miles away
[00:14:00] Sarah: and it was beautiful it was perfect. And it's not often that I can say, okay, let's do bison heart tartar and the client is going to be like, fuck yeah. And that's, exactly how she reacted. And I was like, we are supposed to do this together. This is how this goes. And I just realized, this is the only way I want to do this now. It's interesting. I want to cook for people, but I don't want to do so within the bounds and, restrictions of high-end hospitality businesses because they don't really best serve anyone that isn't signing a check or receiving a check. And doing this wedding this way, bison heart tartare and cured bison tongue and, these beautiful grilled ribeyes and then taking all of the product, all of the scrap products and bones and trim
[00:15:00] Sarah: leftover and turning it into stock on Sunday morning that the guests then got to sip on while they were, enjoying their breakfast and kind of reminiscing about the whole weekend. You're also just consuming this nutritious broth that is a culmination of the entire weekend. Like I only want to cook food that way. I only want to cook food that's predominantly from here. And I only want to eat meat that I have had a hand in raising because it means so much for us. And it's particularly just beneficial for our life on this planet to contribute to those natural cycles rather than continuing to pull ourselves out of it and serve asparagus year round.
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[00:15:50] Aubrey: Maybe you've noticed, there's no commercials on this show, and that's because currently, we don't have sponsors. And while someday that's going to happen, for now, this show is totally funded by yours truly, and
[00:16:00] Aubrey: thankfully, the incredible support of you, the listener. So, if you like the show and want to make sure it continues to exist and grow, we would super appreciate your support. Just go check out our merch link in the show notes. And, in case you didn't know, every person we interview gets to choose a cause of choice. We then create a custom episode merch piece and donate five dollars for every piece sold, and I would say that's a real win-win. So head to the show notes and check out all this season's custom merch. Thank you so much, we couldn't do this without you.
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[00:16:34] Aubrey: And I think this is a good transition moment to what some might call the, the darker side of the conversation. But again, I don't stand by that. I think that it's, it's all just part of life, and I think there's an interesting projection that humans put on death of our own built up discomfort and shame towards
[00:17:00] Aubrey: that concept, because not even that long ago, within just a few generations, death was still just such a part of life. Whether that be humans, because of illness and, the way we fought each other, the way we still fight each other. Anyway, you know what I'm saying? Death has always been a constant companion of humanity, and I feel like it's only in the recent generations that it has super extremity of like disconnect from it. And I think it's interesting how we, again, project is the only word that's coming to me at the moment, but these feelings of shame and guilt that we feel towards it, towards livestock, right? I think that's why PETA exists. It's not to say that the intention of wanting to be kinder to other living creatures is a bad one. It's not, but
[00:18:00] Aubrey: to be so black and white and cut off from the world that we live in, the world that we are genetically, evolved from and are meant to be a part of. And yes, I understand I come from a little bit of a weird background, having been raised Lakota and having that foundation that like, we're all related and it is a gift given from, one living creature to another, but when you handle that with respect and love, those feelings of guilt and shame really go away and you realize that it is a reciprocal relationship. And so I think it's interesting to transition to this part because everything you're describing is like, there's so much joy in life and there's so much to be explored and felt and experienced. But that doesn't mean that there's a bad day awaiting us when it's over. It is just the transitional moment to the next
[00:19:00] Aubrey: experience So I want to just give you the opportunity to speak to this because I know it's something you're very passionate about and that you're very confident in talking about in this sort of like continuation of life cycles.
[00:19:13] Sarah: Yeah, I do. I want to, step back for just one second or make a note. You said, you said I come back, I come from this weird background of, Lakota, just, I can't remember the exact word you used, but
[00:19:26] Aubrey: I probably shouldn't have worded it that way, to be honest.
Death, The Companion to Life
[00:19:29] Sarah: That's what I was going to say. It's not weird. It is not weird. It is in fact traditional and natural and that's part of our issue in that we don't acknowledge that. And, a lot of the indigenous groups that were here long before white settlers, acknowledged death. Because it is the companion to life and our Western
[00:20:00] Sarah: society and culture continues to try to hide it and not acknowledge how valuable it is in the cycle. And I think the hard part of that for a lot of people is because when we think about death, we immediately think about our own death. We think about the humans that we love dying, or we remember how it feels when a pet dies, and it's hard and it's awful, but it is going to happen. And if we can try to train ourselves to shift away from not living in that sadness or trying to constantly stuff them down and put them away we won't be able to recognize how important and how beautiful a part of the process it is. When I was 16, it was a week
[00:21:00] Sarah: before my birthday, my mom died. And I was the only one in the hospital room with her when she died and I was holding her hand and I was basically asking her not to die and she did anyways. And it was, having a parent die, having anybody you love die is very hard, but having it happen at that time of my life was particularly hard. I was in foster care at the time and I was not permitted to grieve the way that I was finding for myself to be the best way. And all that meant was, I wasn't going to class completely regularly. I was not always choosing to eat meals with my family. And I was seeking friendships outside of my normal like high school group of friends. And this was a huge problem for the people in my life immediately.
[00:22:00] Sarah: And, I ended up leaving the house I was living in at that time because they thought my behavior was destructive and it was bothering them. And I was literally grieving. Just in a very normal capacity, but we are so uncomfortable with it. They were so uncomfortable when I would want to talk about it. People were uncomfortable when I was sad about it. And this is the kind of culture and way of living that we've set up for ourselves in that we can't acknowledge or give time to the things that aren't sparking joy, so anyways, there's something, there's something there in, the allowance that I was not had to grieve properly has now transitioned into just really trying to seek and understand death in our lives and our world. It's, it's natural in the
[00:23:00] Sarah: animal kingdom. It's natural in the plant kingdom. It's natural in cycles of the seasons and we still try to not talk about it or ignore it. And it's one of the most beautiful things to me. And I say that because I'm going to, I'm going to have to go a little weird or morbid,
[00:23:20] Aubrey: I encourage you to go wherever you need to go.
[00:23:23] Sarah: You know, it's, it's, a couple thousand 50,000 or so, chickens that I've had my hand inside their carcass. And when you're processing and you're, you're going through the muscle memory and the rhythm and you're trying to get really good at it. One of the things I want to do is be able to do like a full swoop and pull out everything at one time you know, the life that we take out of the bird. I'm holding it in my hands, and on some days I'm just looking at how quickly can I do it and how perfectly can I do it. And then other times something
[00:24:00] Sarah: stops me in my tracks immediately and I look down and I see these beautiful livers and I see this beautiful heart and I'm looking at the life force and the energy of this animal. In my hand, the birds over here now, but in my other hand is all of these things that I think are fucking delicious and nutritious and will provide sustenance for many people and then still on the other side is if that animal's life was not in my hands, it was going to go somewhere else. The energy was going to go into the ground. It was going to go to a hawk. It was going to go, to another chicken because they are highly opportunistic carnivores. but it's, it's
[00:25:00] Sarah: one thing when you're, preparing a kitchen for service, and you're preparing your mise en place, and then it's a completely other thing when you're setting up and preparing to take lives. And it is something that I want to do to the best of my ability and teach to the best of my ability because it is so important to do it well. I don't take lightly value of taking lives and eating animals. But it is something that I think is important, necessary for most folks in order to, sustain themselves well and nourish themselves properly. But also if you're going to eat meat, if you're going to eat animals, get yourself as close to the process as possible. I
[00:26:00] Sarah: have probably, I, quite a few dozen messages I would get on Instagram, when I would post an animal carcass or part of the process and people would say things like, I know I shouldn't be grossed out, but I'm really grossed out or, I posted a photo of a bird I found in a puddle once that had died and, it's really, it's sad, and I want to not shy away from that, but the other people that I end up sharing it with don't like it and they don't want to see it on my feed and they are uncomfortable with the color of the pig's intestines, or they don't like seeing a cow lick my hand because slobber is gross. And on the other end of it, I couldn't be happier being in a space with a cow where it wants to lick my hand, or having my arms elbow deep into a pig carcass, they're about the same as far as a happiness level for me,
[00:27:00] Sarah: and it's because I helped raise that animal because I cared for that animal. I spent almost every day with it, you know whether it's I'm taking food scraps out to it or I'm petting it and just hanging out with it having these animals in my life and then being a part of taking their life is this natural cycle that we are so afraid of and I could not love it more and I know that will make so many people uncomfortable to hear that I love this part of the job, but I really do and it's because I love the animals and it's because I love the cycle and it's because I want to do it as well as possible to honor those animals and to honor these natural cycles that whether we like it or not we find ourselves in. You can ignore winter and you can stay inside all you want, but it's happening, you can ignore death all you want, but it is going to happen. And the more that you make yourself comfortable with it, and not afraid of blood, or watching, the
[00:28:00] Sarah: energy leave an animal, the better off, humanity will be because of it, the better off the planet will be because of it.
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[00:28:07] Aubrey: Pardon one more quick plug. Anyone who knows me knows I love books, so we are affiliate partners of bookshop.org, an organization dedicated to keeping local bookstores alive and thriving, because those big corporations They just don't need any more of our money. So head to the show notes where we've linked our bookshelf and bonus, we'd love if you sent us suggestions to add, you can do so by DMing us on Instagram @goldenapproachpod, or join our email subscriptions on our website, goldenapproachpodcast.com. Okay, let's dive back in.
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[00:28:44] Aubrey: I think there's a couple overlapping themes to be touched on in what you're describing the conglomeration of the conversation, I think is so fascinating because life is death and death is life.
[00:29:00] Aubrey: So when you're talking about one or the other, it's all one conversation. Us talking about finding joy and whimsy and whatnot, like that can and should be found in both. But I do think that back to my comment about things being, it being weird, my background, I say that more because of the multiculturalness of it, because. As I get older and I reconnect back to these things that I disconnected myself from being in the industry and making that my sole focus of my life and as I separate myself from that and rediscover all that life has to offer. It's not just the indigenous values taught, but it's also being Jewish sitting shiva is a big deal. And even that, I don't really know what to compare it to in the Lutheran background that I was also raised in. And so I think this cultural disconnect for
[00:30:00] Aubrey: people in relation to death, in the sense that in indigenous culture you're taught that it is a continuation. It's a gift. It's just the next step in the journey. And that is embraced to be Jewish to say, this is a sad thing, but we sit with our family and we be together in this moment and we process this feeling together in support and you eat a crap ton of delicious food while you do it. But then, maybe this is just my disconnect to the Lutheran culture, but people aren't taught a variation of that it's like heaven or hell and you just do what you need to do to get yourself into heaven so you can be at peace and you justify it in your mind that like it's okay because they went to heaven but everything is about that and sparked from a place of fear of the alternative and I don't mean to go on this like super religious tangent I say all of this just to point out that
[00:31:00] Aubrey: where your foundation is culturally says a lot about your acceptance level of what life has to offer in all its forms, in its joy and in its sadness and in its loss. And so I think it's important for us as individuals to reflect on why we feel certain ways so that way we can go on journeys like you and we can find ways to reconnect and be at peace and find our place in that process altogether, because I do think, again, this isn't meant to be religious, but you do come from a bit more traditional background. I don't think you come from a super religious background, but you come from a more traditional background. And so it's been interesting to see your journey, because I feel like I connect to you more and more, the deeper you get down this path to the things that feel very familiar to me that I don't find to be familiar. And so it's been interesting to see your journey, because I feel like I connect to you more and more, the deeper you get down this path to the things that feel very familiar to me that I don't find to be familiar in most of
[00:32:00] Aubrey: the world I live in now because I am so disconnected from that original variation. So I don't know. I hope that even just listening to this could help someone maybe register where they're feeling uncomfortable with this conversation, like, which things you're saying is the parts of animal carcasses that you're describing, sure, someone might say that's graphic, but like, why does that feel graphic to you? why does that feel so intolerable? Because we all watch some really crazy shit like I'm about to go on a separate side tangent. So I really apologize. I promise it connects. But when you're watching a TV show and this really horrible thing is happening and something's getting bombed or someone's on their deathbed or something. And it cuts out because that's the dramatic moment to like, pause the story for a commercial break. And the next thing I know, I'm watching a commercial about goddamn coke.
[00:33:00] Aubrey: And this shit, really messes with my brain that I'm like, I was just in, this really emotional place and, connecting with this thing, this crazy, just, emotional process to mourn this character or to feel fear with that character and now I'm watching a commercial on soda? What? Yeah. And I think that plays into our disconnect as well. So anyway, I just, I point all this out in the hopes that people will reflect as to why does this feel uncomfortable? If you can watch that, but this feels uncomfortable. Why?
Feeling the “Bad” to More Wholly Experience the “Good”
[00:33:35] Sarah: Yeah, it's a, it's a classic trope, right? When you're, there is some sort of scene or something happening in a movie or a film or a book or what have you, and we cut the tension with humor, or we end it, to go to the commercial break, or we cut to, a shot of the person that is alive. We're not staring at the person that has died or the tragedy or something like that. And, yeah, yeah, let's stop
[00:34:00] Sarah: cutting away, and live in it really. And it's back to your comment about, religion and we use these, what are considered as negative emotions or concerns and fears as, something to not really just dig into, and we treat grief like it's a, I don't know how to quite say it, but we're, we use fear tactics in religion and our society to scare us away from really feeling. And if it isn't happy. We don't want it. If it isn't love, we don't want it. If it isn't longing or a crush or motivation, inspiration, if it isn't any of those things. If it's sad or dirty or bloody or, confusing, heartbreak, we cut
[00:35:00] Sarah: away. We cut to the Coca-Cola commercial break. And then inevitably half of us get up and go get a Coca-Cola, yeah. I don't know. There's something, if you like think about, uh, think about working on like in a very cold kill room and have split open a carcass and you're seeing like the steam come out of it and all of a sudden you get a little bit of a reprieve from how cold you are because your hands are working inside this warm carcass and that is, it's satisfying, and it feels good to find comfort in the work that you already think is very important to do, but you know that it also makes other people uncomfortable, and I don't know, it's this strange sort of, privilege that I have in connecting with the world around me through The death process, and I think, people who are
[00:36:00] Sarah: opposed to eating animals would probably, be horrified by a statement like that, and I understand that, but the alternative is being completely disconnected and not having any sort of connection with your, tofu, or just not being able to bridge the gap between where your food comes from and who you are is to me inherently much more problematic than having blood on my hands.
[00:36:35] Aubrey: I'm stealing this language from Elyse from a previous episode, but, it's offering a reframe of how we see and approach these things in the sense of it is a privilege and it's a gift and it's a connection versus a loss and a sadness and an abuse. So I do think it's
[00:37:00] Aubrey: a reframe of how we see that connection between if it is your tofu, even that, first off, people are not giving me enough credit to the plants and their intelligence, again, without going on a full tangent, there is modern science, which kills me to even say, because indigenous people have known this for literally millennia, but fine, let's say this is modern science discovery that plants are basically like a living brain. They may not have a brain like we do, but they are able to communicate with each other. They are able to send nutrients to weaker plants. They're able to move themselves based on where the sun is, trees move themselves to allow for sunshine to be able to pop through. So okay, we can go on that tangent, but it's just about respect of whatever is gifting you life. And I am grateful to be alive for the things that I consume. And I will show
[00:38:00] Aubrey: respect to whatever it is that I'm eating for that connection and gratitude for the privilege to have access to that food. And I think once you start reframing that, then I can live my life in a way with intentionality and respect instead of ego and gluttony. That betters my direct community, but also betters the international world because I am not taking more than my share. So it's all connected.
Putting Respect and Care First
[00:38:32] Sarah: Yeah, it is all connected and it's a great point because it's what I've failed I think to even mention is like instead, like thinking of it as a gain instead of a loss, like you're saying the part of, and I'm lucky that I'm here and that, this is the way that we can do it because it hasn't been the case that many of the places I've worked, but living this life in this process with intentionality, we're tanning the hides here so that we can use them to make additional products,
[00:39:00] Sarah: the bones get saved and either, we consume the marrow directly or the bones go into stock each week, that then further gives us nutrition. After the bones are cooked, then they go into compost and they go back into the ground. And either we use that carbon in the future beds of the garden, or we put it directly back into the earth where it is stored and not released into the atmosphere. Like we talk about this transfer of energy and life. It helps the ecosystems around us. You know, death is 50% of the, the whole scenario, it's life and death. And, the further that we get from recognizing that part of the process, we are doing ourselves a disservice. And if we can work more to recognize how important death is
[00:40:00] Sarah: in the process, we will be doing the planet and humanity a much better service. For our relationship on this planet as a whole.
[00:40:11] Aubrey: I agree completely. And I think that there are small ways that we can all participate in that, right? This city, living in Baltimore, like I do have my own sort of plug-in little compost guy, but I also feel bad because it uses a lot of electricity as well. So I try to be very intentional in what I use it for. But there's enough programs now in the city that like, literally, you can just put your compost on your stoop and someone drives by and they pick it up and then they bring you the bucket back. So there's a lot of ways for us all to feel, I think, a bit more in control. And it takes away some of that guilt, I think, too, because sometimes I'll, Let my water run. I'll feel so much shame of I can't believe I'm wasting this or whatever just waiting for it to warm up. But now I just put something underneath of it. And then I use that to water my
[00:41:00] Aubrey: plants. And I'm like, you're never watering your plants enough. So this is a good reminder to just put that there and then you can go water your plants with that water so you're not wasting it. So I think there's nice little ways that we can all participate, even if we don't have access to this full cycle, lifestyle that you get to live on campus.
[00:41:18] Sarah: Yeah. And, I completely respect if people like just don't want to be involved in slaughter or, animal death, like it is a hard thing. And, not everybody's ready at the same point to do it, or some people are ready and then, life happens and all of a sudden it's too much for them and I can respect all of those opinions, but if you are not going to participate in that part of the process, you need to find something else to participate in.
[00:41:47] Aubrey: A hundred percent. And this is something I get on with Ryan all the time because I'm very like into sustainability and doing our part and whatnot. And, I'll be like, oh, use this reusable coffee filter. And he's like, I
[00:42:00] Aubrey: hate them. I'm like, well, that's fine, but then choose something else. I don't care what you choose, but choose something else. So I think that there's a lot to be said in taking initiative, but also feeling empowered to be able to be in control of those things. And I do you want to comment on your comment about, people not always being ready at the same time. And I really respected that when I was out there, that was a constant conversation about, there's no timeline for when the students participate in slaughter. That it is on their timeline of when they are able and ready and capable of handling because it is emotional. And we can say it's part of the cycle, you know, of living, but it would be disrespectful to also not acknowledge that depending on what's going on in your life or what you've experienced or whatever, that that can feel more sensitive to certain people and that it does need to be something that is handled with care and empathy.
[00:42:59] Sarah: Yeah, no,
[00:43:00] Sarah: it's true. There's, there's some students that are ready to, do the actual slaughter themselves. And then, they get enough opportunities and they start to get pretty good at it. And then, there's students that just want to sign up for the cleanup afterwards, or they want to cook lunch while we're doing it so that, they can help, but they're not forced into a part of the process they're not ready for. There's one young student here who's Muslim and she generally doesn't get to eat the meat that we have here because she needs to eat halal slaughtered meat. And this was something we talked about, even as far back as, my interview here. And we figured out a way to get her trained up to do the slaughter herself in the fashion of halal so that she can then eat the meat that she helped raise and process and kill and we had a whole conversation about it afterwards, a couple of weeks after her first slaughter.
[00:44:00] Sarah: And I asked her how she felt about it. And she said that it is a heavy process that is not to be taken lightly and that there are quite a few lessons that she learned from it. Having, doing it like for the first time. And I asked her, like, how did you learn those lessons, or who's teaching that? And she said that the chicken is who is teaching her these lessons, the animal itself. And you don't understand that until you do it, and I'm glad that you know, killing is not something that she wants to do, but she understands how valuable meat is in her diet and put herself in that position to do it. And she did a fantastic job.
[00:44:44] Aubrey: Yeah, I think that is an incredible lesson for anyone to have the opportunity to connect with. I really do. And I know that you wrote an article actually about this experience together. And if it's
[00:45:00] Aubrey: possible, we've, I think we've touched on this before about being able to link it so that way people could read it. So if you're comfortable with that, I’d love to link it to our ko-fi account. It'll be a free thing, not behind like the paywall. So people can read that full experience and reflect on it. Cause I think that's a really interesting, and necessary kind of conversation to be had.
[00:45:25] Sarah:Yeah, definitely.
[00:45:26] Aubrey: Awesome.
[00:45:27] Sarah: Thank you, Aubrey, for the time
[00:45:28] Aubrey: Thank you. I love you. Appreciate you.
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[00:45:30] Aubrey: Thank you for listening to the Golden Approach Podcast, which wouldn't be possible without the support of associate producer and content manager, Emmalyn with audio technology and support provided by barn swallow audio company. If you've liked this episode or any episode prior, be sure to follow so you never miss a new release. We greatly appreciate if you helped others find the show also by leaving a review wherever you're currently listening or directly sharing with friends and family. You can find resources, merch, and more [00:46:00] in the show notes and website, GoldenApproachPodcast.com. And if you're looking for more content, join our Ko-fi community and follow on Insta @GoldenApproachPod. Until next time, let your hopeful romantic side shine always. Buh bye!
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